Making stickers while milling?

[OlJarhead]

One thing I've noticed when researching others who our out there providing remote milling services is that they often advertise making stickers as part of the milling process.

But here's my question:  when doing so don't the wet stickers result in sap stain where they are touch the wet lumber?

[beenthere]

But if stickers are needed, wet ones are better than none at all. ;)

[pineywoods]

Imake them both ways. I edge flitches while sawing a cant into boards, bundle up the strips, and cut them to length with a chainsaw. Not my favorite method, too much labor and handling, but it does provide stickers at little cost other than the labor.
I prefer to stop sawing lumber and cut an entire log into stickers. Saw a cant through and through, then stand the resulting boards upright and clamp securely. Then use a chainsaw to cut a notch at the desire lengths. Don't cut all the way to the bottom of the boards. Then saw off the top in 1 inch increments, each pass of the head yielding a bunch of stickers of the desired length. I can make several hundred stickers all cut to the desired length in just a few minutes...

[Ianab]

when doing so don't the wet stickers result in sap stain where they are touch the wet lumber?

Some species you can get away with using wet stickers. Cedar and cypress for example. I've often stickered those green, and never had an issue.

Other wood that's not for appearance grade, it may stain a little, but it doesn't affect the end use of the board.

So there are times when you can use green stickers, and other times when you should avoid it if you possible can.

And as Beenthere said, green stickers are still 10X better than no stickers...

Ian

[Chuck White]

I do as Pineywoods does, I get a few stickers here and there while edging flitches, but sometimes I'll take a whole log and commit it to making stickers!

I know they will not completely dry by any means, but when I'm cutting a lot of stickers, we will spread them out on a couple of slabs and let the sun shine on them all day!  That way, at least the outside will be dry!

[Magicman]

I always saw stickers when sawing and never charge the customer for doing so.  Most of my sawing is beetle killed SYP, so the lumber as well as the stickers are already well on their way to being dry.  Even green stickers with green SYP is not a problem.

I have a serious whack of dried stickers that are available to customers when sawing Oak which would "sticker shadow".  These are also provided at no cost.

[OlJarhead]

THanks guys,

I've been spoiled in that I've gotten my stickers (since the first few times of using the mill and frantically cutting up plywood to use since i had nothing else) fo free from a sawmill near where I used to work.  I'd just let them know when I could come by and they'd pile up everything they didn't want for me and even forklift it onto my truck!

So when thinking about milling for others it occurred to me that I might need to provide stickers for them and if I'm doing pine that is going to be used for paneling that might be an issue.

[T Welsh]

Its all part of the leaning process when you educate your customer over the phone. I tell them to start sawing up sticker,s before I show up. Wet sticker,s will stain most light woods and some dark woods. I also tell them that I can saw them from outside wood but there's a chance of stain and I would prefer them to supply dry stickers. It takes a step out of my work load that way and gives them better quality product! Tim

[John Bartley]

I must be a cheapskate in the log   I rarely have enough of a slab or edging from a flitch to get any stickers...

I freely admit that my stickers are probably more expensive than I could cut for myself, but they're easy and I like "easy". I buy KD Spruce 1"x2" 's  in 96" lengths and have the lumber store cut them for me at 32", so I get three stickers per length. I figure I'm paying about $0.30 each, but they are dry, straight and absolutely uniform in dimension. I reuse them time and again, so I don't see it as much of an extravagance for a small operation (part time - more of a hobbyist) like mine.

to each their own ...

John

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

If you can find a mill using six foot sticks, see if they will sell you the broken ones, assuming you need four or five foot sticks.

1x2 from Home Depot, etc. are also a good choice.

[OlJarhead]

For myself it isn't an issue since I have a lot still and I can get them free from the sawmill if I'm willing to drive over (about an hour).

What I'm more concerned about is the customer and I like Tim's approach in suggesting that they get some ready.

[Tree Feller]

What I'm more concerned about is the customer and I like Tim's approach in suggesting that they get some ready.

Providing them for the customer might also go a long way towards getting repeat business, recommendations to others and general customer satisfaction.

[WoodenHead]

I sell lumber so things work a bit different than offering milling services to others, but I learned my lesson early and do not use green stickers.  I tried green stickers at first and ended up with the worst case of mold and sticker stain.  Even the green cedar stickers caused stain (except on the fresh cut cedar).  It happened to be late fall and drying conditions were poor.  I had milled my first boards of pine and oak.  Most of that stuff went into the scrap pile or for my own projects.  Now I cut stickers from dried boards (that don't meet my quality standards for sale) or dry the stickers that come out of my edgings.  But as long as the customer understands what you are providing, provide what you can.

[drobertson]

I have to pipe in on this one. stickers are the main stay unless the lumber is going up right away.  i always(always) make a point on this when portable and cut them right off the bat. otherwise, much double handling to follow.  One should figure if the bundles will be moved buy a loader, and if so, then figure the layers according to the lift limit of the loader. Otherwise be ready for some hand over hand  handling of  the boards.   

[OlJarhead]

For pine would you carry extra stickers (dry ones) to give the customer when you mill for them?  Or just have them make some and have ready?

[learner]

Very informative.  I've been trying to think of how I can get repeat bussiness by educating customers about drying their lumber.
At the same time it does take time and work to make stickers.  Now I'm inclined to think that most people don't want to hear that they need to cut up a bunch of wood in order to properly dry what I saw for them.
That and I'm getting so many logs coming in that I'm allways having to cut more stickers for our own use.  So, I've been considering cutting and drying a LOT of them for sale to people that don't want to cut their own.
I'm not being greedy here but when you look at it a lot of wood and time goes into making stickers.  Now I suppose I could work up a rate for drying it for them but then that's a whole new ballgame there.
Right now I just saw up low grade logs like post oak for making stickers.  We just have our tree service guy bring us a couple every now and then.  I believe we just pay $26 a ton for them.
Since I use 25" stickers, that works out pretty well as far as the number of them I get per log.  2' stacks make for better air-flow and lighter loads for the FEL and fork-lift.  That and I generally don't cut wider than 1x12's which still gives me the 1" seperation between boards in the stack.
I learned the Hard way that Green stickers and Red/White oak promote mold, mildew and sticker stains.
;D I tried to get Christmas colors in there but.

[drobertson]

I try to make a point to cut them right off the bat. othewise double handling is in order.

[OlJarhead]

I try to make a point to cut them right off the bat. othewise double handling is in order.

I've read that others do this but it isn't ideal for ponderosa pine out here because it gives sap stain wherever the sticker contacts the lumber.

[Sawdust Lover]

Imake them both ways. I edge flitches while sawing a cant into boards, bundle up the strips, and cut them to length with a chainsaw. Not my favorite method, too much labor and handling, but it does provide stickers at little cost other than the labor.
I prefer to stop sawing lumber and cut an entire log into stickers. Saw a cant through and through, then stand the resulting boards upright and clamp securely. Then use a chainsaw to cut a notch at the desire lengths. Don't cut all the way to the bottom of the boards. Then saw off the top in 1 inch increments, each pass of the head yielding a bunch of stickers of the desired length. I can make several hundred stickers all cut to the desired length in just a few minutes...

Great tip pineywoods..Thanks!

[Brad_S.]

For pine would you carry extra stickers (dry ones) to give the customer when you mill for them?  Or just have them make some and have ready?

Like "learner" said in the post directly under the quoted one, stickers take a surprising amount of lumber to make and good quality lumber at that. I would never just give them to a customer. 30 cents each was my rate for providing dry stickers. Mine have a "u" shaped profile cut in them to help minimize staining.
Maybe Gene can confirm or deny this...I have been told that there is such a thing as TOO dry stickers, especially when used in contact with slow drying lumber such as oak. The dry stickers suck the moisture from he lumber and cause it to surface check.

[Brucer]

If I saw the stickers out of the customers' wood, there's no charge. If I supply them, they are $.25 each (4' long).

I used to sell entire lifts of 1x still stickered. The customer -- usually a contractor -- would promise to bring the stickers back. It never happened -- until I started charging a deposit on them.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

If sticks are bone dry, then the wood they are in contact with will dry quickly.  This can cause the wood to develop a whiter color than the wood between the stickers, giving reverse sticker shadow.  Fast drying can also check a wood like oak, and in some cases, the checks will turn into honeycomb right at the stick location.

[drobertson]

Oljarhead, I don't know anything about the trees in your area, but if the ponderosa is tricky, I would figure that you might start building up a pile of stickers for when you need them.

[Jim_Rogers]

In this story about stickers:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61568.msg907372.html#msg907372

I wrote about how I make stickers and store them for drying, on pallets or skids.

I also wrote that I didn't have a picture of my solar sticker drier that I made back in 94 when we first started.

Well, I was looking for something else and found a couple of pictures of my solar drier from back then:



 



  



  



 

It wasn't much but it did the trick that I needed it to do.

At the time I took the pictures the drier was 6 years old and hadn't been used in 5 years.
Once we had enough stickers to use for all our drying lumber on hand we stopped using it.

Jim Rogers

[Sixacresand]

Making stickers from flitches and scraps is time consuming, but it does use a lot of material that goes to the slab pile.