Timber Jig

[Brian_Weekley]

I came across this video the other day... have any of you seen this?  Ingenious custom jig for milling timber frames.  Great repurposing use for an old radial arm saw.  This chain mortiser attachment for the radial arm saw is only about $200!

Note:  Click on "Watch on Youtube" to view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX7bUf_oJJQ

Except for using a ball pein hammer on the chisel, I thought it was a pretty creative (and elaborate) setup!

Brian

[jueston]

that would sure speed things up, but it seems to me it would only work on timber that were planed and perfectly square....

[shinnlinger]

I have seen a jig where some guy hung a cheap planer with the bottom removed form the sawhead on a band mill to plane timbers.  That set up would be a logical addition to this set up.  Mill the timber and while it was still on the deck, set a modified radial arm saw (that can run on the mill rails) with mortiser on the mill and work the timber up right there.  I have cut tenons with my sawmill.

Dave

[Dave Shepard]

That's a pretty neat contraption, but I don't think it's faster than hand tools. The video was 5 minutes, sped up 4x. So that's 20 minutes x two guys is 40 minutes, and we don't know if there was any editing. There were a couple of things they did not do, such as scoop the housing or taper and chamfer the tenon. That would take me less than a half hour with a hand crank boring machine and hand tools.

[shinnlinger]

I dont disagree Dave, especially if you had a $$$ morticing machine,  but if you were working a batch of timbers up on the mill and wanted  some mortices along one face all at the same height (distance in from edge) and depth and all you had to worry about was how far apart they were and the machine would do the rest it could be quicker or at least more precise for relatively low cost.  Imagine if the timbers were complete or nearly so as you pulled them off the mill deck?

Dave

[Dave Shepard]

I'm just using a $200 Swan boring machine not a Mafell. ;) How much money do you think is tied up in that rig? The bandsaw is $6k, and those extruded rails and all the other gizmos aren't cheap, plus the time to build it. If one was working in batches, doing all of the boring, then all of the sawing etc., you become even more efficient. I'm not trying to totally undermine the coolness and inventiveness of the people that built that, but it's just a baby Hundegger. They've probably added a popup saw by now. :D

[shinnlinger]

True enough, I'm not adapting an old radial arm saw to cut mortices on my mill anytime soon....  I'll just get by with my hole hawg and chisel.....

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Everyone,

If you dig a little deeper, you can find this same setup on "Flicker" tackling a log in 2012.  I concur with other's here on FF, that though this is a unique and brilliant approach with some very redeeming qualities,  I don't believe it is any faster that using a combination of traditional hand and power tools.  Could it, after all the "machinist," modifications are completed be faster in certain applications if used by a qualified technician (the inventor?) in some applications, I have no doubt that it could.  In the big picture, like say a whole frame with tapered-round post and perhaps some live edge beams ,thrown in for a challenge, I think a novice with 6 months experience in Asian design methods could beat the "Timber Jig," by a log shot.

I do appreciate the inventiveness, but just become amazed by my "tech geek" friends that get so wrapped up in their "machine creations," that they loose sight of the big picture.  Have fun I say, more power to you, but I will stick to traditional layout modalities and approaches, they just are faster.  These are the folks thought that come up with the next best thing in power hand tools...no telling where this will lead?

[giant splinter]

Looks like it would be great on smaller projects but might be difficult to use on a large beam or bent that might be very long and difficult to move around or even get to fit on the saw table.
I think the Makita chain is about $400.00+ for a replacement chain so this tool is priced right.

[wavekiter]

HOMEMADE HUNDEGGER!

[swampfox]

Pretty ingenious.

I find that material handling is always a lot of work in timber framing.  I like to set up as many saw horse sets as I can, shake out as much as I can, layout as much as I can, and then take the tool to each timber methodically, one tool at a time moving through as many timbers as I can before having to adjust tool settings.  This approach works pretty quickly as long as you spend the proper time on checking your layout and in some cases color coding it.

by the way you can use your makita mortiser to cut housings just like this is doing.

now the mafell, well that's just one cadillac of a tool.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

We have both Makita and Maffels in our arsenal, and if the Maffels have the 40 or 50 mm (1.5" to 2") bits in them, they can be fast for our barn work.  However, most of the time it is a Makita or Protool slotter that gets the work out. 

Regards,

jay

[Brad_bb]

Though I can appreciate what they did, for many of the reasons mentioned, I wouldn't think it more effecient than traditional methods.  There are pro's to their approach and cons.  A couple of the cons not mentioned is that I think many of those joints still need final finishing with chisel and they'll need to be test fit.  Unlike a Hundegger, they are hand machining, so the accuracy will be less, and they are leaving some material for final finsihing.  So basically they are roughing off the waste with this machine.  Then there's the portability aspect of traditional method...and no need for electrical cords and the like.

It's neat, and you could probably find effeciencies if it was used for repetative processes- like braces.  Rick Collins of Trillium Dell has a neat machine he uses for braces, since it's such a repetative task.
http://youtu.be/B7_BeT21Anw

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey Brad,

You brought up some great points. There are several companies that make machines like that in Europe and Japan.  For certain applications, there isn't a faster way for stock material of a set size and dimension to be jointed, but if there are variations that can through "wrench," in the works.

As for test fitting, depending on a timber wrights approach and layout method, test fitting should not be required.  We raise frames on a regular basis and seldom do the joints not fit, hand cut or other wise.  We do use templates often and "go-no go," gauges, so in that sense, they are checked/tested. I agree with many methods like scribe rule or edge rule that full scale joint testing and fitting does seem to be more common place, and necessary. 

Regards, 

jay

[S.Hyland]

I would agree that it is an inventive machine, but in the case of any inconsistency in timber size seems like it would be nothing but a headache. I would rather take the tool to the timber any day! I totally agree with SwampFox on keep handling to a minimum. I think that the timber jig would require more handling in a lot of cases (turning timbers end for end).

[Brian_Weekley]

HOMEMADE HUNDEGGER!

I had to look up what a "Hundegger" is!

I'm primarily a hand tool guy.  I would never consider a contraption like this.  However, from a technology perspective, I'm very impressed with a homebuilt unit of this scale.