Messing with Sketchup - my cabin idea

[Ljohnsaw]

I'll see If Don has any photos, maybe Rooster does. 

Thanks

Did the Engineer say you needed these big timbers, or is that just the look you are going for? 

I am still working on getting a quote for engineering services.  I did the load calcs myself from the original 45° roof slope.  The roof snow load dropped from 116 PSF to 78 PSF when I bumped up to the 53° slope (16/12).  I was able to downsize the rafter from the 6x9's to 5x8's (actually 4x8's would work but I'm going stouter) at 24" OC.  I need to work down the frame.  I suspect the "purlins" will be able to downsize as well.  Right now, they are 8x12 on the lower and 8x15's on the mid and ridge.  The tie beams carrying the queen posts have the most load and they are 10x16's.

Most often, if there shimmed/wedged, it is from the bottom (outboard,) as Rudy suggested, however with housed braces this may not be best aesthetically.  The other is wedging from the top, (inboard.) Which do you think you would like to see?

Regards,

jay

I was thinking the wedging going in at the top since the bottom is more of the bearing surface and it would be a neater look/cleaner installation.  Now, I was thinking this is a really thin (like 1/4" down to nothing) wedge but it probably isn't, is it?  Is is more like 1/2" to 1" thick with a little 1 or 2° taper?

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi John,

Now I understand the sizing, it makes since, and doesn't sound bad at all.  The more I study the frame, the more of you I see in it, and that is a good thing.  To often when you facilitate a frame with someone, you can influence too many elements, and it begins to look...well imbalanced.  If you listen, and follow certain design standards, and elements you soon begin to work in concert with that person.  I love the roof pitch, it is the one I use on many of my frames, 53° or 37°, it is a classic pitch, and part of the "golden mean."

Did you get a hold of "Fire Tower Engineers?"

I think from the top will look nice on the braces and could even be a signature statement if you use a wood like Madrone.  I'm going to take one of your joints in the frame and play with it and send it to you.  You let me know what you think.

Regards,

jay

[Ljohnsaw]

Yes, I'm in contact with Fire Tower.

Jay, the joints in the posted plans are not correct.  They are just drawn and not done as TF Joints.  Also, I have changed them quite a bit since my last skp file posting.  Let me know if you want me to send you the plan as it stands now - more work to do - but the basic timbers and braces are done correctly (I think) now.

[jander3]

Now, as far as the square rule, etc.  I've got sort of a problem with my drawings.  Engineering the load, I need to use a 10x16 - so that is what I draw.  I know my beam won't be that exactly, I'll be sure to oversize it a bit when cutting.  In fact, everything that I cut I will add a percentage for shrinkage such that I will be over the stated size.  Should I draw my beams to be say 10.5 x 16.5 so the housing comes out right?  I chose not to do it that way.  Am I wrong?  My shop drawing will have all the dimensions for the cuts so do I bother with that fine point?  As long as I indicate the working face and adjacent face, all should be good, right?  It would be a relatively easy modification, but does it really matter? :-\

In my opinion, you draw the plans to dimension you will use.  Your timbers will be slightly over-sized.  For example if you are using 8 x 10 beams you might cut them at 8 1/4 by 10 1/4.  When it is time to do the layout, a mortise in the post would be housed exactly for an 8 X 10 beam.   When you are working on the beam at the housing portion you par back the non reference faces as needed to make it exactly 8 x 10.  You can see that in the photo I posted above.  The beam is cut back on the bottom so it fits properly in the mortise.   You don't need to include this detail on you plan...you just need to add it and cut when you do the layout.

[Ljohnsaw]

I have incorporated engineering changes as suggested by Ben of Fire Tower.  I have a contract with him to move my project along.  I've cleaned up my drawing to a level I was comfortable submitting to him.  Now I feel like I'm back in High School - I submitted my term paper and I'm hoping to get a passing grade  ;)

I'm meeting a well driller (that I used 22 years ago) at my property on Friday.  If we can find water, I'll be very anxious to get my plans finalized and off to the building department.  We have had a very mild winter (only about 4 or 5 feet of snow this year compared to 19 feet two years ago) and unseasonably warm weather.  It has been in the 50s and 60s at my property while being in the 70s and 80s here (near Sacramento).  There is still a chance of a late storm to muck thinks up but that is waning every day.  The next 10 days are predicted to be mostly clear with afternoon thunder showers - almost a summer pattern.

If I can get water in the next week or two, I'll be ordering my Faswall blocks since there is a 6-8 week lead time.  I might actually get further along than I thought this year!

I'm pondering what single piece of equipment to buy to aid in the building of my cabin.  I'm not going into the lumber business so I'm NOT considering a FEL.

Here's my thoughts:

My foundation will be 10' high with 7 or 8' above the soil.  On top of that, the timber frame side walls will extend ~14' with the peak at nearly 30' above the sill.  I will be needing to place the common rafters, roof planks, possible plywood, rigid insulation and metal roofing way up there.

A knuckle boom (truck or trailer type) would get me up there but has limited load capacity (~500lbs?).

An extended reach fork lift (the kind with the four big wheels, all wheel drive/steering) would be able to lift much more and probably reach farther.

I would use a safety harness slung over the peak to anchor myself.  Comments on either or any other suggestions?  What is the going cost on either of the above (in your area)?  I would plan to sell whatever after I'm done.  I think it would be much more cost effective than renting!!!

[jander3]

With your distances it looks to me like you will need some type of crane assembly (lifting 20-30 feet for your plates and ridges).   I know of builders that purchased an old truck with crane assembly and then resold it after their project.

In the next year I am building a smaller timber frame in a remote area.  I will be installing a derrick type crane built from logs and hardware we welded up.   This will be installed at the beginning of the project and positioned to move timbers for cutting and installed such that I can also install the timbers on the building.

To make your higher lifts you could just set up a lifting shear or Gin pole.  Rigging would run you about 1K.


Years ago, I purchased an Oliver 880 for 3K.  Probably the best investment I have made.  I've used if for hauling, pulling, lifting, anchoring, attaching a gin pole to the bucket to get more reach, etc.  Often, after felling trees, if they were too large to pull with the ATV and log arch, I would have been stuck without the Oliver. I also have enough scaffolding that I could set up an access the ridge.

The machine you purchase should be based on your needs.  Are you felling trees?  Running a sawmill?  Where do you have to move your timbers?  Are there roads? Paths?  Etc.

For my project a tractor, an ATV, an Log Arch was the right combination.  I really like the bobcats for general use; however, I didnt' want to spend that kind of money.  Even used they are quite spendy.




 



 



 

[Dakota]

I used a variable reach fork lift.  It was a big one (6,000LB).  Cost me $414 per day or $1011/wk.  I rented it for the whole week.  It was $165 to deliver it, but my place is 60 miles from where I rented it.  It was well worth the money.



 



 

[witterbound]

You need something to move and store the timbers when cutting the frame, then something entirely different to raise your frame.  Like a forklift or bobcat now, and a crane or telelifts later. 

[Jim_Rogers]

For raising you may get a better rate for renting one if you rent it for a month.

I'd at least check into it and see.

Jim Rogers

[jueston]

when it comes to building I think there are few pieces of machinery more handy then the 4 wheel drive tele lifter. if your working with others you can build some kind of bucket (thats what we called) which could just be a big pallet with some fences around the side, one guy sits inside the bucket while the other controls the vehicle and can bring it to each window or whatever else.... that is what I would look into....