What size material to cut from a pawlonia log?

[Delawhere Jack]

My client today has a pawlonia tree down. Roughly 22" dia. He was going to have me mill it up for a commercial renovation project he's working on, but I suggested that it may be worth more for him to mill it into lumber to sell.

I know that there was a big market selling these logs to Japanese years ago, but apparently that market has cooled off. Any recomendations on what would be a good size to mill this material for the US market?



  

 

[clww]

I've never heard of pawlonia. ???

[T Welsh]

Jack, I have tried for 30 years to sell them with no luck. Seems there is a buyer down in the Port of Baltimore somewhere that pays, but I have never found him! Cut it for your customers needs, it looks like the carpenter ants got to the butt, so I would cash in on a sure deal just sawing it for your customer and what it gives is what it gives. Tim

[Jay C. White Cloud]

8/4 fletch cut is probably the pest.  Still a market in Asia, just not paying as much now, as the farms are starting to produce more of it.  Should sell, depending on lumber quality for no less that $2/bf or higher.

[Delawhere Jack]

Thanks guys. Maybe I'll see if he'd be interested in making some surfboards!  :D

[beenthere]

it looks like the carpenter ants got to the butt

That would be decay that the ants cleaned out. ;)

[Tree Feller]

Any recomendations on what would be a good size to mill this material for the US market? 

Firewood size?

[SwampDonkey]

+2 to the ants making galleries in rotten wood.  :-\

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Pawlonia or (Japanese kiri-桐  Korean odongnamu-오동나무 Chinese Tóngmù 桐木) is a very important wood in Asia.  Primary uses saw handles, brides wedding boxes, some flooring, cabinets, sound boards for Asian Luthiers, and most recently, high quality hand made surf board blanks. The ant damage is not uncommon and usually follow wind shakes in the tree base.  Because of the soft, and light nature of the wood, they (ants) can easily channel out nesting cavities, there may not even be any "rot" in the tree, just a weakness around the "shakes."

[clww]

Thanks, Jay. ;)

[two tired]

would that tree also be called an empiress tree?

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Yep,  ;)  and there are many varieties.  Even in some of the plantations, there maybe 3 or 4 depending on needs and intended application.

[Wudman]

The grain is going to dictate the value.  Pawlonia here is basically a weed.  It grows so fast that it is impossible to dry.  It is not unusual for a tree to put on a couple of inches of radial growth a year.  The Asian markets value the wood grown in colder climates with tighter growth rings.  I got my hands on one log and sawed it 5/4.  It went every direction when drying.  It seemed almost as light as balsa when dry.

Wudman

[SwampDonkey]

Over the years on the forum we have had various folks with experiences with Pawlonia and I don't recall many praising the stuff and what rings true for most of the experiences of it grown in the US is: rot, wide rings, unfavorable grain, drying defects, trash logs. Only recall one, and I don't know who at this point, whom had a little success with it. Even with a good log it seemed the market was a bit fickle.

[Delawhere Jack]

The growth rings in this log are HUGE! Guess I'll tell the client I can mill it for him, but not to expect too much from it.

At least is should mill REALLY FAST!  :D

[Ianab]

Don't let the wide growth rings fool you, that's just the way those things grow. The tree has gotten a bad rap  in the US because it's an invasive species and it was promoted as a "get rich quick" scheme, which as usual didn't pan out as promised.

The wood itself actually quite interesting. Very light, almost as light as balsa, resistant to insect attack, and is quite stable (low shrinkage as it dries). Likely folks are having issues with juvenile wood in young fast grown trees that have not been managed properly?

But actually marketing it a problem. Niche market to boat builders and wood workers I would imagine?

This page is a fact sheet on it from here in NZ. Might be useful info for your customer.
http://www.nzwood.co.nz/species/paulownia

Ian

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hmmm, maybe it is the way they (Asians) and I work wood?  I love the stuff, as do many that I know, but I will admit, I have only milled and used the wood, never sold any myself.  The fast growth is why it is so popular  as a plantation tree.  As for drying, I have used it both green, and dry. Drying it, is like drying any of the willows, especially weeping willow.  I use larger stickers, closer together and weight the stack.

[Ianab]

I suspect you are correct Jay. It's more that the wood is so different to what folks are used to, especially in US.

I found this local guy who is harvesting and using it to make surf kayaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02VddXG5BEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiUaxA99m0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud89dIL5mVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00YQPu3J3wo

[Jay C. White Cloud]

That was great info Ian, thanks...I thought maybe I was loosing it there for moment, I know there are folks out there that love it, or they wouldn't be planting it.  Talk'd to few surfer buddies, they have me cornered if I find anymore...they say the stuff is "magic."  Maybe any of our FF friends that have some should check with the surfer groups, and fabricators, there is a place to sell it, maybe even here in the USA. ??? :

Thanks again, ;D

[Sawdust Lover]

Pawlonia or (Japanese kiri-桐  Korean odongnamu-오동나무 Chinese Tóngmù 桐木) is a very important wood in Asia.  Primary uses saw handles, brides wedding boxes, some flooring, cabinets, sound boards for Asian Luthiers, and most recently, high quality hand made surf board blanks. The ant damage is not uncommon and usually follow wind shakes in the tree base.  Because of the soft, and light nature of the wood, they (ants) can easily channel out nesting cavities, there may not even be any "rot" in the tree, just a weakness around the "shakes."

Not to get off the subject but did you type in Japanese?  :

[t f flippo]

You may want to try Greenlight Surf Co, Greenlight Surf Supply and  US Fiberglass Supply.
They have wood kits and links for wooden surfboards n small watercraft.
Possible they would be interested or could help you out.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hello Sawdust Lover,

About the Japanese, Korean and Chinese; I wish I had the language skills to type in all three, but alas I do not,  I am pretty good at architectural Japanese as it relates to folk timber frame architecture, and can follow along in Korean and a little Chinese, but I'm no linguist by a long shot.  I have gotten really good at performing searches in other languages for my research and using translations to further my understanding. 

I try to always include the native name and spelling of "topic points" and key word whenever I write for those interested enough to do their own research.  If you take, for example, the Japanese Kanji for Pawlonia, paste it into a Google image search, you get a whole other cultural take on a subject.  This holds true for Swiss, German, Polish, or just about any language that is relatively common.

Regards,

jay

[Ianab]

Interestingly enough when I view the thread on my android cell-phone I see the Japanese Characters. ( I still can't read Japanese of course  :D ) But a standard PC doesn't have the character set installed to display them.

Ian

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Ian,

This might not be the place for this conversation, but I will gladly go where told to if the info sounds viable, or helpful.  I have had several folks on this and other forums tell be they can see the "foreign script," on many of the smart phones, but not on there standard PC.  I am definitely no tech wizard, not by a long shot, but I can make some pretty good stabs in the dark that seem to hit the target.  One solution, is to use Google Chrome as your primary search engine, it has solved this problem for many folks I have talked to.  Don't know why it works, but it does.  I am writing from a rather old and ratty little HP lap top standard PC, and after launching Google Chrome and using it as my primary search tool,  many things improved, including the ability to manipulate foreign text and script.

Let me know if that helps?

Regards,

jay