firewood processor circular blade thoughts

[icefishingrulz]

I have been gathering supplies for a couple years to build a processor.  All along thinking that I would do a automated hydraulic chainsaw for cutoff.  Then I started looking into circular saws but know nothing about them.  I found a 48" carbide inserted for a decent price but again I know nothing about them.  The ad states it has some pitting and another blemish or 2.  Should I be concerned?  What else should I be looking for?  How do I determine how many HP, flow, pressure, speed etc?

Any help is appreciated.

[johndeerkiwi]

Study, study, study hydraulics.....about 3 years ago all I knew about hydraulics was roughly how a double acting ram worked....now, by simply using the internet as a learning tool, I recently had a hydraulic design professional critique my firewood processor hydraulic plan(my own design) and when he said there was one aspect that wouldn't work, I was able to successfully demonstrate to his satisfaction that he had it entirely wrong!
It's really great to be able to work out your own systems, calculate horsepower, flow, hose size, speed  etc, and be confident it will work. I have already finished my first hydraulic system of my own design, a vertical hydraulic wood splitter powered by the John Deere PTO shaft....( a higher oil flow than the tractors remotes) and it's doing everything it was supposed to.

Re chainsaw versus circular on a processor, I have looked at both very objectively for my own project which I hope to start building in earnest soon. For me the circular saw was likely to be a bit dearer, but  slightly easier to build and no oiler required, and the promise of much less sharpening was attractive. But there were two main obstacles....the wood I cut is often not forestry plantation trees, and sometimes has the occasional embedded metal...recently, while ringing trees with my awesome Johnsered 625 ll chainsaw,  I found a half inch square railway or bridge spike in the middle of a log(had been there 50 years and still in good nick). It ruined my chain, but as luck would have it, I was on my last use of that particular chain anyway. I was going again in 5 minutes.

I realised that if I had hit that with an inserted tooth saw it likely could have broken not just the insert, but the teeth right off. A .404 chain about $90, the blade $2500!! (NZ$).

The other factor was horsepower. A circular saw requires more power, and would stretch my intended power unit. So I have decided to use a chainsaw on my processor, despite the advantages of a circular, but your circumstances could be quite different. 8)

[North River Energy]

A circle saw will take more hp, consume more fuel, generate more heat in the hydraulic system (so you'll want more capacity and an oil cooler) and be more dear in cost if you try to saw through something that doesn't want to be sawn.

On the other hand, they can be quite a bit faster than the average chain cutoff, have no problem whatsoever with dirty wood, and take very little maintenance.

If you want to go that route, you might want to look for a retired slasher package.  That way you would have all the parts and a framework designed to work together, rather than buying a 'cheap' blade and then fabricating a means of driving and swinging it.

The other consideration, if you don't need huge capacity, is to use a smaller 30" cutoff blade with brazed carbides.  Not terribly expensive, and more than up to the task so long as your expectations are in line.

As to flow, Hp, etc, I can get the numbers off my pumps and motors if you want.

[stumpjumper83]

Dear op, Have you found a 48" circle mill blade designed for ripping, or have you found a slasher blade?  I too was working on the same problem.  Found a 52" mill blade cheap, was all stoked up about it, talked to the local sawmill expert.  The man is pushing 90 hard, and he has spent most of his life owning, working, fixing and consulting for sawmills.  I told him I wanted to use a rip blade for a cutoff, he told me that in no uncertain terms that it was a very bad idea.  So I listened...   

Then due to demand I bought a dyna sc16 rather than spend months working on my homemade rig.  Bar saws are nice.  Chains are $21 bucks from the local shop, that sure makes hitting rocks, nails, and fence insulators a lot easier to stomach.

[blackfoot griz]

I am also in the camp of a chain saw due to the same reasons stated already. IMO, the starting point is your power plant. From there, you can calculate what you will have available for your hydros. It is also a balance of cycle times. Having a saw that can cut a block in two seconds is great but not so great if you have a 12 second cycle time on the splitter.

On the processor I built, I used a .404 chain and I am amazed how much I can cut before the chain needs a touch up.  I have run 20 cords on one chain. (granted, it is dead lodgepole and some fir--not hardwood).

Do you already have an engine you are going to use?

[stumpjumper83]

A little more in depth on my experiences with bar saw processors.  I like them so far.  In general, in fairly clean wood I can run all day on a single chain.  That means 10 full cords of cutting.  When they do dull I have a buddy touch them up with his sharpener.  Last year I think I made about 80 full cord and used 3 chains to do it.  What chains don't like is frozen mud.  This year, if the logs freeze, the processor is going in the shed. 

I do have an open mind to a slasher blade though, the thought of sharpening every week appeals to me, the lack of needing to run bar oil, which isn't that expensive btw, I just run cheap hydraulic fluid.  I'm just scared to see what happened when fence insulators and spikes are hit with the slasher blade. 

What I would like to try on a build sometime is a band saw for cutting the log off.  Not a small band either, something like a 2.5" wide, fairly coarse band saw blade.  The benefits would be a significantly reduced kerf, no oil needed, and a median price between saw chain and circle blades.  My hang up though was the return stroke of the cutter head.  A good chance that you would mess the blade up lifting it back past the log.  I was working on that problem when I decided to buy my dyna...  Now I just use that.

[Randy88]

We used to run a circular saw blade on our sawmill, the thing blades have going for them in a firewood processor is speed, but your also backing it with far more horsepower than any normal chain can withstand, its been decades since we used the blade mill, now we hire someone with a band sawmill to mill our lumber for us.     

Blades run a long time with little maintenance, but the kicker comes in when they do, most times you better have a health checkbook to back it up, your going to need it.    We could hire our logs milled cheaper than it was for the maintenance and upkeep on the blade, if its hot out, the blade will warp, needing cooling, if you hit something in the log, at best you'll loose teeth, but more likely your going to rip inserts out of the blade, needing a total blade rebuild, not for the faint of heart.    But what's worse, is this, firewood is the dirties, rock filled and poorest quality wood out there to cut, the absolute worst environment for any blade period.         

The other major drawback to a blade is this, do you plan on having a complete spare blade???   If not what are you going to do when, and I mean when not if, your blade needs to be sent in for repair??   Next question is this, who near you works on them??   What is there turn around rate and time??   What is their hourly rate??

With a chainsaw setup, lets see maybe 50 bucks a chain and you can have as many as you want for spares, your never down and out and not able to use the processor and if you hit something, toss the chain in the trash, your out maybe 10 minutes and 50 bucks and back going again, with a blade.............good luck on a cost that cheap and fast.    If you'd be unlucky enough to hit a big rock, or large steel chunk and damage your blade beyond repair..........what was the price of the whole blade again?? and you will buy it or convert it to a chainsaw bar at that point in time.   With use comes wear, and with ours, the inserts holders become loose and then the blade with spit a tooth out, needing the blade sent in for repairs, new inserts and new teeth, and the more use the more wear still till they get to the point they won't really hold teeth at all, then comes the new blade.     

This is just my opinion of blades, some love them, but I've ended up with the cost end of blades, not the user friendly portion a lot of people have.   

[beenthere]

For cross cutting logs with circular blade, usually don't use inserted teeth, IIRC.

[North River Energy]

^ Well, actually, they do.  Though the retention mechanism and bits look different than what one would see on a circle mill.

http://www.simondsint.com/circularsaws/Pages/Items/ITCO-Firewood-Processor-Saw.aspx

[Randy88]

Beenthere, yes they do, most of the major players even show them in their video's on how to sharpen them, replace them, with such ease and how "cheap" the components are for them.   But they use a slightly different style of tooth, the last I looked at them anyhow.   

The older crosscut blades that mounted on or behind tractors, didn't have a replaceable tooth, we had one of them as well for a long time, my dad finally sold it, for a while I was upset with him for doing so, then after some thinking on it, all the memories of sharpening, and trying to get the blade to run right came flooding back over time and I'm glad he did get rid of it.   

[Randy88]

North River Energy, I didn't see your post till after I hit the button to reply, thanks for the link, I'd never have figured out how to post that.    For a few years, cordking was using a setup similar to the blade mills, even had the same style of wrench to twist the tooth out, not sure what they are using now though, haven't looked in a long time.   

I've seen several versions of the tooth setup over the years on blade processors, most have replaced the entire blade for something else on the used one's I've seen for sale or in use.     

By the looks of that style, they must be hoping in case you hit something you'll break off the carbide tip before damaging the blade holder portion, wonder if it helps.     

[North River Energy]

R88,
Copy the address from the page you want to display.
Above the 'post reply' message composition box, you'll see two rows of buttons.
Second line, third from left is the 'add hyperlink'.
Click that, then paste the address into the appropriate slot and the link is added to your post.

The carbides are brittle and sacrificial.  Considering the typical use of that blade, smashing through multiple stems at once on the average landing, they work just fine cutting firewood.

Many of the bar type processors on the market, (both home built and production), have underpowered saw motors. 

This only adds to the appeal of a circle blade, despite the higher cost of repair.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you have to cut, and which tool will better serve your needs.
(Sort of like High speed steel v carbide in a machining application).