New (to me) Tree Farmer C5

chester_tree _farmah · January 11, 2015, 07:55:04 AM

The 8 lug are the Rockwell "pr52". I am sure they made some changes to them here and there so I wouldn't think otherwise just by a few different ways that nut is held in place. Lopet and sliver picker have a C5D and Lopets is a quite a bit later model C5D. The C5Ds have different axles. They are heavier axles in the C5D. The Rockwells had tags riveted to the outside casing, similar to what Lopet showed, but if yours still has them u would be a lucky man indeed. And if u do please post a pic of the tag! :-)

tantoy · January 11, 2015, 11:54:12 AM

As far as that gear, I would build it up with some Lincoln Softweld 99Ni or similar and just machine it to shape with a grinder and file. I lust have a feeling that gear would be hard to find, maybe not $$$.

bushmechanic · January 11, 2015, 01:55:52 PM

You don't have the real small Rockwell planetaries. Those are a mix of 8 bolt wheel nuts and the larger style Rockwells that were found on Timberjack 215 skidders. Those are the same as found on the D series Timberjacks and C5D Tree Farmers with the 12 bolt wheel nuts. The hub changes to fit the 30 inch rim but has the same planetary parts.

chester_tree _farmah · January 11, 2015, 04:46:50 PM

Quote from: bushmechanic on January 11, 2015, 01:55:52 PM
You don't have the real small Rockwell planetaries. Those are a mix of 8 bolt wheel nuts and the larger style Rockwells that were found on Timberjack 215 skidders. Those are the same as found on the D series Timberjacks and C5D Tree Farmers with the 12 bolt wheel nuts. The hub changes to fit the 30 inch rim but has the same planetary parts.

Great info. Bush mechanic. So looking at the pic David-L posted of his brothers machine - the front are the small planetaries?

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 05:14:02 PM

Thanks for all the help so far. It is very much appreciated. Is this the only seal that I need to replace besides RTV on the mating surfaces? Anyone got a good spot with decent prices for these? I'm sure Davco will have them but usually not the cheapest. I can't find a part number on it. It is stamped Canada and C/R.

The area that this seal rides on is definitely grooved. Has anyone ever used a speedi sleeve to fix this? My father in law works in a paper mill and he said they use them on pump shafts quite often to get the seal to work when the shaft gets a groove.

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=01321251

tantoy · January 11, 2015, 05:28:00 PM

Do you have a local bearing house near? I wonder if they can get that seal if its a Chicago rawhide brand. To bad there is no number left on it. Is there no smaller seal that seals around the Axel shaft and keeps the gear oil in the pumpkin? You would see a machined seal surface on the shaft if it does use that inner seal.

bushmechanic · January 11, 2015, 06:39:18 PM

Yes chester-tree-farmah that planetary on the front in the pic is a small Rockwell. No trouble to tell them cause they usually have 8 lugs and you can see the ends of the brass pins outside the cover. Inside the cover the pins only have c-clips and washers holding on the gears, unless its a TJ 208 then there is a steel plate and spacers locking the pins from moving sideways, oh and a different seal system. mjeselskis if you do get a speedi-sleeve to fit that you will pay with an arm or leg. You could try Timberparts in New Brunswick but I think freight will get you.

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 06:58:35 PM

Thanks guys. You must have spent some good quality time these things since you seem to have the memorized. Tantoy, there is no flat spot on the shaft and no seal to be found. I believe the oil from the pumpkin is supposed to get out to the planetaries by the looks. I have a few bearing places around so I can bring it in and see what they have.

Bush_mechanic, the cheapest I have found speedi sleeves for is 105 if the shaft is 5 7/8 but I am reading 5.93" with my caliper so not sure what it's supposed to be.

lopet · January 11, 2015, 07:10:26 PM

mjeselskis When I did mine I wasn't sure either what I needed. So I took the seals off ( well the second one I got off without wrecking it ) cleaned everything, laid it on a table with a white surface and took a few pictures from different angles and send them along with some measurements and a picture off the axle tag to a couple of dealers. It still was around $ 300 per set but yours might be cheaper. I probably still have the box with the number on it but it won't do you any good.
This is what I most of the time do when I don't find any numbers on the parts and thanks to digital technology I normally get the right stuff unless somebody works in a parts department who shouldn't be working there. ;)

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 07:34:08 PM

Looks like the parts list is getting longer. A couple of the planetary gears seemed loose so I pulled the brass pins out and they are pretty worn.

Given that I'm only going to be pulling 10-20 cord per year with this, would you replace these pins?

snowstorm · January 11, 2015, 07:43:10 PM

Quote from: ohiowoodchuck on January 09, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
unitized oil seal or dual action oil seal is the name your looking for. My 20,000lb Mortiz gooseneck has 10k dexter axles, the oil bath seal in them is the same in a f650 ford.I bought mine from my buddy who owns a large semi/equipment service place. They was way cheaper there then anyplace else because he sells 1000's a year vs. a few sets like at napa etc. These seals are on all the semi's heavy equipment even semi trailers. Basically anything with a oil bath hub now a days.

scot seal is another name for it. most all the big trucks have used them for yrs. they dont use a wear sleeve. just push it in the hub by hand. take your old seal to traction, used to be brake service. Augusta bangor and they a few other stores

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 07:51:47 PM

Couldn't find a riveted tag but found this on the axle. If the axles are original, I'd say this makes the skidder about a 1967 model year

ohiowoodchuck · January 11, 2015, 08:09:06 PM

Quote from: snowstorm on January 11, 2015, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: ohiowoodchuck on January 09, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
unitized oil seal or dual action oil seal is the name your looking for. My 20,000lb Mortiz gooseneck has 10k dexter axles, the oil bath seal in them is the same in a f650 ford.I bought mine from my buddy who owns a large semi/equipment service place. They was way cheaper there then anyplace else because he sells 1000's a year vs. a few sets like at napa etc. These seals are on all the semi's heavy equipment even semi trailers. Basically anything with a oil bath hub now a days.
scot seal is another name for it. most all the big trucks have used them for yrs. they dont use a wear sleeve. just push it in the hub by hand. take your old seal to traction, used to be brake service. Augusta bangor and they a few other stores

you are correct sir, I ordered 4 seals from napa and they were skf scot seals, the height of them was 1/2 more than the national brand I took them back and we tried to cross every number but it all came back the same. I got my money back and went to my buddy and got the right ones and never looked back.

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 08:17:17 PM

Thanks snowstorm, I forgot about traction. They used to have a store in Lewiston, I'll have to see if they are still there

tantoy · January 11, 2015, 09:44:09 PM

Quote from: mjeselskis on January 11, 2015, 07:34:08 PM
Looks like the parts list is getting longer. A couple of the planetary gears seemed loose so I pulled the brass pins out and they are pretty worn.

Given that I'm only going to be pulling 10-20 cord per year with this, would you replace these pins?

I think you are going to have to stop at some point and just put it back together. I have the same problem, keep taking things apart and see more things to fix. At the end of the day the old beast would probably just keep on pulling logs despite broken gear teeth, worn seals, sloppy pins, leaking hydraulic cylinders, ect. Just use best judgement and fix what you feel most necessary.

tantoy · January 11, 2015, 09:46:47 PM

Quote from: mjeselskis on January 11, 2015, 07:51:47 PM
Couldn't find a riveted tag but found this on the axle. If the axles are original, I'd say this makes the skidder about a 1967 model year

Cool, I will check my axles to see it I have a casting date like that. I have never been 100% sure of the date of my Garrett.

mjeselskis · January 11, 2015, 09:53:09 PM

The numbers are on the front side on the "passenger" side.

I think you're right, I just need to draw a line in the sand. I just don't have enough experience with these to know if I'm 1 day away from breaking our if it will run like that for 5 more years.

loggah · January 12, 2015, 06:54:43 AM

If you put those worn pins back in it wont last long !!!!! those pins being worn that much will allow the planet gears to walk so the tops of the gear teeth may hit,basically your gears will be out of time. I would try and find some new, better pins at least.

tantoy · January 12, 2015, 08:55:59 PM

Quote from: loggah on January 12, 2015, 06:54:43 AM
If you put those worn pins back in it wont last long !!!!! those pins being worn that much will allow the planet gears to walk so the tops of the gear teeth may hit,basically your gears will be out of time. I would try and find some new, better pins at least.

Indeed loggah has much more practical experience that I have. I just fear that you may have to do this 3 more times. I guess you gotta pay to play as they say :-\

mjeselskis · January 12, 2015, 09:11:45 PM

Yeah. I'm afraid what I'll find in the other three but I'd rather replace just the pins instead of them and the gears. At least I won't have to worry about them when I get done