Hydraulics Upgrade

[homesteader1972]

Hello All,
On my older WMLT40HD, I have factory hydraulics for the log loader, clamp, backstops and claw turner. I would really like hydraulic toe boards, as well as the potential for a chain turner and 2 plane clamp some time in the future. The problem is two fold. First, I know nothing about hydraulics. I dont even know what open center means. So, is there some sort of primer on basic hydraulics out there that might teach me some basics? Secondly, talking to WM, the upgrade to getting to hyd toes is a complete new hydraulic system, very pricey. Mine has only three valves and the tech said it is not up-gradable.
  Two things I have thought about is, one installing a more powerful motor and/or pump in the existing system (I'd like faster hydraulics as well) and some how tapping into it for the needed hydraulics for toes. Or just bypassing the electric motor and pump and using a small gas engine and pump to run the existing hydraulics, plus toes and any future upgrades, but still using the existing valve work that runs the current hydraulics. I envision this engine and pump with disconnects that could also power a wood splitter. My mill is portable, but dont see this as much hassle, but may be wrong.
  Any Ideas?

Thank you.

[york]

Go to your local library,you will find all kinds of reading on Hyd...

[Ga Mtn Man]

Go to baileynet.com and go to the Support page.  Lot's of good info there.

[pineywoods]

Homesteader, you say older mill and reading between the lines, I assume pre-97. Unless you have extensive fabrication capability, you will be much better off trading up. The two plane clamp in particular, requires extensive butchering of the mill frame. There's a whole bunch of hidden gotcha's, fer instance the electrical system on your mill won't support bigger/more motors and pumps, existing hoses and probably valves would need to be upgraded. I know where you are coming from, been there. I bought a 95 manual mill, thinking I could just purchase the parts from wm and bolt them on. That could be done, but it's entirely impractical. I couldn't afford to trade up, so I designed and built my own full hydraulic system. I'm quite happy with it..

[uler3161]

Wow, how old is this mill? My '89 has hydraulic toe boards and as far as I know it came that way.

[homesteader1972]

Thanks for all the input,

Uler, the mill is an '88 and hyd toes were an option that the original buyer didn't opt for.

Piney, a dual plane clamp isnt that important, I actually have no complaints with the clamp thats on it, but would realy like to figure something out for hyd toe boards. The mill does have an external alternator so the electrical system has at least some capabilities. How hard to bypass the electric pump and use a small gas engine with a pump. Could it be worked in to the existing hydraulics and then add a valve for toes?

Thanks again

[Southside]

In regards to your toe boards the reason WM is telling you the valves can not be added onto are 1 - they are the mfg and don't want any liability if you did something wrong and 2 - they are not "stackable" or have a "power beyond" capacity to them, meaning you can add more on the end.  That does not mean it is the end of the world.  The toe board on the older mills is a one way piston that uses a big spring to pull it back down.  You could tie into one of your existing valves by using a "T" in the line which would allow one existing valve to service two functions by you switching the valve - it would be a bit different than normal operations but a lot cheaper than replacing the entire valve bank. 

Open center means what it sounds like, the valve literally has an open center when it is at rest and the fluid freely circulates through the middle of it back to the tank and pump. When you pull or push the valve oil is diverted to that function, otherwise it just goes round and round.  In most case an open center system can only perform one function at a time as all the oil is being diverted to that function and there is none for any of the other functions, not all the systems will act this way and if you feather the valves you can get multiple functions to work at the same time. 

Hope some of this helps. 

[ozarkgem]

I think the aux system would give you more options. I added a hydraulic power unit to mine for the extra hydraulics. Mae the log turner work much better. I am able to control 2 functions at the same time. My mill is stationary and I had the electric power unit so that is what I used. Put an extra valve or two in for future use. I put a hyd toe board on and it is one of the best mods I have done. I saw a lot of Cedar so lots of taper to deal with.

[pineywoods]

There is one big advantage to hooking up an external pump. As is, your hydraulics only work when the saw head is returned back to the hitch end. The external pump has no such restrictions, you would have full hydraulic functionality regardles of head position on the mill. Real easy to do, especially if you do not go portable.My hydraulics run off a 1 hp 110volt electric motor. The mechanical parts of a toe board would be easy to fabricate. The easiest way to do the hydraulics would be to insert a diverter valve in the lines going to the loader and add hoses from that to a single toe cylinder. You won't need to use toe roller and loader at the same time, this lets you use either but not at the same time. Diverter valves are not that expensive, some are electically operated, so you can mount the vave where-ever and run a wire to a switch. Woodmizer ain't just being picky, they have good reason to label such an upgrade as do-able but not really practical. To keep the finished installation as stock as possible, the entire valve bank would have to be changed out to another with 2 more valves, not exactly a trivial job. I agree, you would most likely be better off trading up..

[Remle]

I have thought of additional hydraulics on my mill also, thinking of adding a splitter valve on  the clamp line, this would give me one more function for another clamp that could be used on long lumber. You would need at least 2 functions for a front and rear toe boards or two splitter valves to do the job. If you tie into the clamp hydraulic lines you could use power up and down on roller toe boards. I feel this would be a good improvement over the spring return on early mills.

[redprospector]

I may be wrong, I haven't seen the plumbing on a Wood-Mizer up close. But couldn't a couple of power beyond valves be put in before the original bank of valves?