LT40 vs LT70 mathamatical question (not too hard)

[Glenn1]

I have two sawmills in my area and both have hydraulic.  The LT40 charges $50 per hour and the LT70 charges $70 per hour.  If they were both cutting 14-18 straight logs in hardwood, I assume that the LT70 will cut more bf in an hour's time.  I plan on trying both to see which works out better but does anyone have an opinion which will get me the best deal?

[drobertson]

Howdy, and I would be glad to chime in,  the 70 hands down if the price has no bearings on buying one.  I just think it boils down to a few key elements,  Will it be a production oriented venture or smaller mid size.  Both work, just fine, it's the material handling speed that makes the big difference in bd/ft at the end of the day. Large cant drag back is nice on the 70's,  Really, it boils down to the simple fact time really is money. So my opinion is the 70's if you are thinking on possibly a 40 super, if the money is no issue, pay back is possible with both with a good log source and outlet to sell.  hope this makes sense,, best regards,   

[4x4American]

I think he means who to hire!


They are both fast, it depends on if the operator is fast, how well you can keep the mill fed with logs and how fast you can get lumber off the mill and edge flitches.  Do either of them have a delivery charge or broken blade fees or that sort of thing?  That's another way to figure who you want to hire.  Good luck.

[beenthere]

Will be interested to see how you plan to measure the two different mills. Sounds interesting to say the least. Keep us up to date, and when do you start the test?

What are the sawing instructions you will give them both? Sawing for grade, or just sawing for volume?
Going to measure the yield, or also going to measure the value of the output some way?

[Glenn1]

I will be looking at quantity numbers but quality is paramount.  As an example, when cutting cherry or walnut, the first and last cut must be 100% heartwood on the top and bottom of the board.  There can be just a little sap wood on the edges but not much.  It's one of these things where I'll have to look at the quality of the boards first and then the bf.  I have approximately 4000bf of walnut, cherry, maple, and sycamore (quartersawn) that needs to be cut.  According to WM stats, there is a difference of 390 bf per hour in absolutely perfect conditions.  I don't expect anything close to that variance.  My logs are mostly 3 sides clear or better as I selected them myself.  I'll keep everyone updated based on what I find.

[4x4American]

Pictures help too!

[Peter Drouin]

If you want cheap get your own mill. :D

[Glenn1]

I prefer high quality at a fair price  ;D

[Magicman]

To realize the production gain from the LT70, you must speed up the support such as log, flitch, and lumber handling.

Before making any decision, I would want to look at both of the sawyer's quality.  Log setup and proper face opening is of the utmost importance and could be a deal maker or deal breaker.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the sawyer is more important than the sawmill or the hourly sawing rate.

[Glenn1]

"Log setup and proper face opening is of the utmost importance and could be a deal maker or deal breaker. "

Magicman, could you elaborate on the sentence above.  I am not totally sure when you refer to proper face opening.

Thank you

[Magicman]

Almost every log has sweep.  Some obvious and some not so much and the effects of sweep ranges from extreme to "not so much".  Many "straight" logs somehow develop sweep when they are loaded onto the level bed of a sawmill.  Many logs also have heart check, limbs, and other defects.  Minimizing the effects of these require examining the log,  turning, and using toe boards.

The first face opening (first slab removed) usually determines the lumber quality from a log. 

I'm just saying that an experienced and conscientious sawyer should produce the highest quality lumber, and that sawyer could very well be either of the two. 

[beenthere]

Glenn1
Do you plan to provide cutting instructions to each sawyer (LT40 and LT70) or provide directions how to cut as the sawyer breaks down your logs?

[YellowHammer]

I always tell people as a rule of thumb that they should use when picking one sawyer and kiln operator over another (me over the competition ;D) is that every high grade log has hidden inside, potentially, 80% high grade and 20% garbage wood, or it can yield 20% high grade and 80% garbage.  Of the 80%, the skill of the sawyer determines 40% of the defects and the skill of the kiln operator determines the other 40%.  A 3 CF log can produce a lot of crappy wood in a hurry if sawn with improper technique.  The yield of even a 4 CF can be blown if, as MM says, sweep, pith, depth of sapwood, etc are not considered.

So speed, efficiency and quality, as well as $$ per hour are subjective and the max yield of good lumber can only be determined if both the sawyer and kiln operator do everything right.

For example, if a band wanders in a cut and creates a bad wave that violates the minimum thickness boundary, then that sawing mistake affects two boards, the ones in either side of the cut.  Two boards doesn't sound like much, but if each board has 6 Bdft and after kiln drying is sold retail at $4 per Bdft, then that one bad cut has ruined two $24 dollar boards, or basically reduced $48 of high grade lumber to a much lesser value of low grade.  So a couple bad cuts by the sawyer, or using a dull band, or a poorly adjusted mill, or any number of things can more than offset any gains in sawing rate and loss in quality and profit. 

It is one thing to have a guy whack through lumber like slicing cheese, it's entirely another to have lumber milled by a true grade sawyer. 

In this particular situation, I would probably let each Sawyer prove themselves by splitting orders between the two of them.  I would then take a hard look at the quality, grade, and yield from each and decide which was the best for my business.
YH

[drobertson]

Lots of good chatter,  whether buying a service or mill, material handling is what to look for,  Some folks with cheap labor can fill the bill, while others can not,  this almost seems like a can of worms to me,  just reading, hope you find a solution.  A good quality sawyer at a price in the range you mentioned would suffice.  Pinching pennies can bite at times when sawing, 

[Peter Drouin]

Glenn1
Do you plan to provide cutting instructions to each sawyer (LT40 and LT70) or provide directions how to cut as the sawyer breaks down your logs?

I had a customer that never cut a log in his life try to tell me how to cut the log one time, :D :D :D It did not work out. ;D