Cedar to China

labradorguy · September 17, 2015, 11:09:53 AM

A guy contacted me out of the blue wanting to know if I could supply a whole sea can of cedar to him for $1.25 per board foot. He said he has a customer in China that would order regularly if I could keep up. Cedar around me that has been dried under a barn roof seems to be going for around $1.50 (I think, I have not messed with it too much). The high volume is interesting though, especially since I own about a hundred acres of large cedars and I might be able to get a few more cents out of him too. I'm wondering if anyone here has been shipping any lumber overseas and if maybe there is a more direct way to do it than to go through a broker, who you know is putting a pretty good mark up on our hard work and is basically just filling out a few Custom's forms for a Chinese lumber dealer. Any advice would be much appreciated.

He did not get into how the wood was dried either. I can't send a pallet to Canada without it being made of kiln dried wood. It's hard for me to believe that I can send air dried wood across the Pacific. Anyone know more about this? Thanks.

BradMarks · September 17, 2015, 11:41:18 AM

Good luck on shipping overseas without a broker. Not anything I would entertain.

Ron Wenrich · September 17, 2015, 12:30:43 PM

We sent a load of 8/4 ash to Pakistan one time. Only once. Their specs were too stringent. They would allow no bark on the boards, and that included a whisper of inner bark. They also had an exact way they wanted it loaded. What should have taken a few hours to load took nearly the whole day.

Find out the specs. Do they want dimension stock? Will they allow any sapwood? What are the thickness tolerances? Bark allowance? How you get paid? That one's really important. Is it when you load the truck or when they unload it in China? You'll need an international banker for the money transfer. One of the reasons you don't go without a broker.

We have sent a lot of logs overseas in containers. Not many went to China. A container is a lot of fun to load, especially with logs. This was through a log broker, and we charged him for loading the trailers.

I'm sure Cedarman will come along and relate his experiences with international shipments. Probably the best source in this Forum.

labradorguy · September 17, 2015, 03:32:43 PM

I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. I have my own Custom's broker and I deal with international shipping with my other company all the time. The wire transfers are simple these days and freight brokers are easy enough to deal with too. What I was getting at is it would be cool to use my customs/freight brokers and ship it myself without going through a lumber broker too.... I can do some digging on my own and find out more about the market, what it is paying, etc.... I just thought maybe someone on here was already doing it and could give me an idea of what was up before I spent time figuring it all out. lol. If there was a couple bucks a board foot to be made it would be worth going after.

Bandmill Bandit · September 17, 2015, 03:55:12 PM

There are a couple of mid sized private mills in Northern BC that have been doing it for quite a few years. the the chinese corp they sell to has a local agent/office in the port town and thats who they deal with direct. That is about all I know. Gross sales for one of them was just over 15 Million annual 2 years ago.

ALL export. ALL cedar. ALL seacan containers. Not sure on price but I am pretty sure it was higher than what your being offered and they ship out several car loads of containers to the port per month. Dont remeber off hand for sure but I think it was a dozen or so and they live in cedar country. Some of the best cedar country on the continent. Transportation to port is about a 2 hour train ride to the port and can send em over to port on trucks if they need to and price is FOB their yard.

One of the owners was thinking of selling out as he wanted to retire but wanted to sell as an going concern. His contracts were all mid term length contracts averaging 5 ish years per.

Tom the Sawyer · September 17, 2015, 11:03:34 PM

labradorguy,

Oddly enough, I got a similar call yesterday afternoon. Didn't specify China, merely said, "to a friend overseas". Said he had his own source for heat treating for export but didn't know too much about the milling process.

Started out wanting 8x8 cants that would be resawn overseas into 4/4, then realized it would be more efficient to ship dried 4/4 boards rather than the cants. Said he could get logs if I didn't have them. Call ended quickly when he got another call.

Cedarman · September 18, 2015, 07:24:48 AM

ERC cants are being shipped to China for $1.00/' and some a little higher. Specs are not too tight. Payment can be slow. There is a huge demand in China. I probably get 20 requests a year.
We will export about 10 containers to Europe this year. I set my price. My broker adds on his cut and shipping. My customer pays by wire in 10 days.
We get a good bit more than $1.00 and we do not dry. Lengths are from 8' to 18' which makes it a lot of "fun" to get the longer lengths. Mostly 1x4,5,6. And 2x4,5,6
It can be done.
China pays the least of anyone.

labradorguy · September 18, 2015, 09:49:04 AM

Thanks for the info guys. I will look into it a little more. I can get a buck fifty in MO, so I'll have to find someone that is paying better than what they offered or loading sea cans and dealing with Intl issues is not going to be worth messing with.

Percy · September 23, 2015, 10:55:37 AM

We have shipped alot of Western Red Cedar to China over the years. We have always been paid but the margins are always slim. If they get a feeling that you are too tough a negotiator, they will disappear.

One particular job in 2011 comes to mind. The order was for three 40 foot containers of WRC 1x6. They said they would pay 900.00/mbf. Was a good price for that volume of standard tight knott WRC. AS things progressed we found that they would pay on their specs which was 22mm X 150 mm(smaller than 1x6) by a significant amount. WE barely broke even with all the "claims" for off grade/packaging infractioins etc.

On a side note, during the claims procedure, I was inadvertantly emailed a document showing in US dollars, how much it cost them to have the whole container(near 20,000 bdft) of 1x6 planed (S4S). It was slightly over 1100.00.