Proper wedge technique?

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm glad you clarified that, because I didn't want some newbie thinking that position three was the best.
In that situation there isn't enough room for your saw bar and the wedge and you've cut away more than half the tree.
I understand your point about there being less weight for the wedge to lift but the point about leverage should overpower the weight concerns.
My point is, as mentioned, the further the wedge is from the hinge the more leverage you have to push the tree over.
I totally agree to the position of the hinge being 1/3 the diameter of the tree.
Thanks.
Jim Rogers

[devo]

Thats a great description Kevin. One other technique I love to use, but isn't a wedge, is the use of a felling bar. I love those things. They work great on trees that aren't big enough to set a wedge, but still need some help to get them going to where I want them. Just my opinion though, I know some people hate them.

[TreeSpyder]

The only time i would bring the hinge pivot back further than center (face stopping before center); would be to give the hinge pivot more leverage over a shallow or centered or backleaner.  But, i wouldn't think that it should come back to position 3.

Kev's diagram says for balanced falls; when would you not wedge as shown?

With target axis the same as lean axis (forward, cenetered or backward), the front row of hinge across i think is pivot, rear row of fibers tensioned (with forward lean).  

With sidelean to the fall, the target axis is different than the lean axis; i think only the lean corner is compressed pivot (rather than whole front row), opposite corner of hinge tensioned pulling (rather than whole back row).  The usable compression, tension forces running always strongest on the loaded axis/lean axis Nature chooses, rather than target axis you choose.  So we must call for thenm from the correct places to use them.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, something like that!

[Kevin]

when would you not wedge as shown?

One method would be when prompting a tree to turn ...

[Kevin]

Devo;
I agree the felling bar can be a handy tool if you don't have too much weight to lift.
I forgot my bar at home today, thanks for reminding me I have one.  ;D

[TreeSpyder]

Is that strategy for turning away from face?
Or away from lean into face?
Or??

i have a semi-trailer tire spoon(?) with a flat end, for mini-felling bar in tree.  The wide flat end fits nicely in the kerf.  Then can drop my whole massive body weight on the end of the lever to tip over top with more hinge strength and control.  A wide face with no internal face, can allow the controlled sweep to be longer for less impacting on catching rig, to prevent damage below.  i think hinge strength maximum is set at first folding as equal and opposite response to pulls and pushes to target, that aren's supported back by compression.

[Kevin]

Ken, it can be used in both instances.

[TreeSpyder]

i guess i strategize to a different model; can we talk? :P

Different thread, finding way to mechanics of hinging understanding, tracing the forces to maximum position stragies etc.?
Any interest?

[Kevin]

Always interested but so many variables.
The biggest problem I find this time of year is the way the wood reacts in the cold weather.
The fibers in the hinge that usually break with some succession are no more and the tree responds differently.
The common practise for turning a tree would be with a tapered hinge but looking at the illustration the hinge gets a lift on one side and the other side gets compressed causing the holding wood to break off the compressed side last which will cause the tree to turn, plus you add weight to that side by lifting the other with the wedge.

[Jim_Rogers]

Do you guys use "corner nipping" to prevent root tear?

Jim Rogers

[Kevin]

Jim;
I don't generally have a problem with softwoods but when I try to prevent root tear I cut into the trunk below the hinge.

[TreeSpyder]

If we are talking about the same thing; i'll do like Kevin or, 'chalk' a line with the saw, that saw will walk to line up the backcut.  Cutting in below most elastic outer layers all the way around seem to stop the tearing.

i'll nip corners (favoring lower ones) to reduce the most extreme pushes from corners on closing face to effect no push from sides at end.  i think the tearoff isn't as quick either.  Sometimes just on 1 side, to allow the uncut corner to push, while the cut one isn't; allowing path of least resistance, pull from one corner while the other pushes at same time etc.

Last minute version of: Kerfing hinge on one side of face, to get more immediate push on movement, as other side of face is pulling at the same time.  The closed kerf giving resistance and push; as the open side is pulling same direction as push and path of least resistance too.