Stickering thick lumber/slabs

[WV Sawmiller]

   I don't remember seeing this here anywhere but is there a different set of rules for stickering thick stock (8/4 or thicker lumber and slabs)? I sticker my 4/4 and have been stickering everything on 2' centers or less using 1X1 stickers. This includes my 2" framing lumber, slabs and even my 3" and 4" mantels.

  Would stickering every 3' or so work well for the thick stuff or should I use the same rules for everything?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

 Would stickering every 3' or so work well for the thick stuff or should I use the same rules for everything?

No......thick slabs will cup as quickly as lumber.
I sticker at 12 - 16 inches on thick wide slabs, weight them down and walk.

[Peter Drouin]

I do everything at 2',

[Tom the Sawyer]

I sticker at 16" on center, with the ends supported.  With the forklift I am able to move stacks around so I started making pallets for air-drying lumber.  After building a couple of them I found someone local who would custom make them to the dimensions I specified - at what I thought was a very reasonable price.



The short ones are 8' long, the longer ones are 12'.  On both, the deck boards are on 16" centers.  The skids on the bottom are also on 16" centers so that I can stack them and the loads are still in a vertical line.

[YellowHammer]

Well.......I'm a little different.  Of course.  ;D
Normally, 16" on center, sometimes not.  Hard, expensive lessons learned.  I adjust the sticker spacing from either 4 feet, 32 inches, or 16 inches.  

Today's sticking job, 3,192 bdft of Kubinec orange banded 9/4, whitewood of Soft Maple and Box elder.  20 mph south wind, 65° maybe 70°, 3 stickers per row, 4 foot spacing.

12 rows high max, 3 fairly tight packed edged wood stacks only 1 double row pack of live edge.  These are stacked one on top of each other.

Special case.  A method to my madness. :

It's been working this technique for awhile, a couple years now, based on time of year, stack height, species movement, species color, max allowable drying rate and enzymatic staining properties.  

Packs will not be double stacked or weighted for a few days, at least as long as the wind is blowing.  The piles of sawdust on the downwind sides of the pack mean things are working in my favor.

No sticker stain because there are aren't any, except every 4 feet.  Higher pressures on the fewer stickers will greatly reduce cup, however this technique mainly greatly reduces whole stack "bow" and twist and warp which has been a huge problem for me.  There will be some slight zig/zag between suckers that will easily plane out, but the average length of the board will be very straight and flat.  I only do this with certain highly sticker stain prone and fast drying species.

I have seen both black and white staining with air flow stickers on maple and poplar.  Poplar and soft wood fibers can be locally crushed by the flutes, and it can adversely affect the finish.

Instead of just sticking and ignoring my stacks, I now treat it as a pre-step to my kiln drying process.  I inspect them frequently, and watch for issues.  I will reconfigure the stickers as needed, I won't let them go bad.    

[longtime lurker]

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh... I sorta got a system. Every board gets stickered on 18" centers (+ends) with 1¼ x ¾" stickers regardless of how thick they are. No exceptions.

Except live edge slabs, because they aren't boards. Those things get stickered as required. Same size stickers for regular stuff but the spacing tends to be "as required" Once they get over 2" thick and over 4' wide, at which point sticker size changes to 2 x 1½ so I can just run a forklift into the stack any old where I please.

Because time is money and I hate manhandling things when I have a machine that can do the grunt work if only I leave enough gap for it to get in there.

[PA_Walnut]

I generally do every 2', but use special stickers and they are 2" thick instead of the normal 3/4 I use on 4/4 and 5/4 stacks.

This is a wide, high-grade walnut we just stickered. I'm of the mind that the stickers are a small percentage of the investment. This is $100 worth of stickers.


These are the normal sized ones.



Yellow, been shopping for some strapping gear. You have any thoughts/recommends for the Kubinec? Do you strap them to keep neat or is it a strategy to keep pressure on them. Thx

[YellowHammer]

I will apply enough pressure to hold the packs for moving and transport without dumping them.  It also keeps the stickers in place.  The flatter the boards get during air drying the easier they slide, like ice on oil.  Solve one problem create another.  

I use the Kubinec 1/2" strapping for bundling green lumber which is like putting rubber bands on a deck of cards.  It has about the right amount of stretch, which is important as I have had the green poly strapping actually indent and deform entire stacks of green wood. Several afternoons of using an 8 foot straight edge laid on top of stacks of boards to see what is going on.  I damaged a lot of wood this way with green poly which is very easy to over tighten and will cause the green wood to deform.  Kubinec can be reused, cut the buckles off a coil it up for next time.  

The Kubinec system is easy to hand tighten when the stacks have shrunk and the strapping gets slack.  One tug, tight again.

The Kubinec stays on until the after kiln deadstacking.  At that point, the green poly goes on for security and strength during road transport.  I've had Kubinec get cut on the board edges during trailering.

If you want to see how the 4/4 stacks are air drying, sight down the boards of the stacks like a rifle sight.  Top boards, middle boards and bottom board edges.  Most stacks will have 1/8" to 1/4" of stack bow, that will permanently deform the boards, from one end to the other.  I make a habit of doing this to other wood yard stacks of boards and I see it all the time.  Its slight, almost always with the center of the boards bowed upward, ends slightly lower.  It causes lots of problems later on, and is seems mostly preventable.

Also, with most boards that have sapwood, I will alternate rows, sapwood up, sapwood down to cancel cup and bow.  

[Brad_bb]

Um...Pa_Walnut, what are  those wavy/scalloped stickers?  How the heck are you doing that?

[YellowHammer]

Yes, Air O Flow or similar purchased stickers.  They are manufactured to allow airflow and prevent sticker stain.  They can cause crushing of wood fibers on softer wood, but a good design.  As PA shows, not for every species, but another tool in the tool box.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Okay guys, thanks for the opinions. Sounds like most people responding sticker on 2' or less, with an occasional exception for certain woods. I may restack mine with some thicker stickers between every 2nd or 3rd row. The thicker stickers would just be so I can lift that much with my under-powered FEL..

[PA_Walnut]

Yes, as Yellow said, they are Air-o-Flow stickers made by a great feller in TN!
I have a FORTUNE in these things, but making stickers isn't my wheelhouse and my time is better invested doing other things.

I really got them for problem woods like maple. I am SUPER diligent about getting it on sticks IMMEDIATELY (if not sooner) ;) in order to avoid stain. My maple is snow white and needs to remain that way.

I have not witnessed it crushing the wood fibers as Yellow indicated, but surely could be an issue if piles get too tall/heavy. The amount I've seen planes right out in the first jointing pass.

Yellow, thanks for the tips about the Kubinec. Do you find the simple, mechanical lever type is right, or do you use a ratcheting unit? I need to get one of those like yesterday!  ;D

[YellowHammer]

It uses the same ratcheting unit as the green and black poly, but threaded a slightly different way.  Real easy to use, and in a pinch can be tightened pretty good by hand which sets it apart from any of the crimped banding.  The 1/2 inch isn't overly strong, but much stronger than the half inch black plastic banding.  It has stopped me from having some epic lumber spills.  It's also great for customers to use for cordage because it holds knots well, so has a lot of other uses around the yard.

[moodnacreek]

If you can't get profiled sticks try using very rough cut spruce or hemlock 3/4" width .  I have dried hard white maple on these with out getting sticker stain .  A band saw may be to fine to saw these. Maybe if some teeth where set way out.

[PA_Walnut]

Great idea! I wonder if a 4° would make it rough enough!?

[WV Sawmiller]

  I'm betting a 10 degree blade would make a rougher cut than the 4 degree and I really suspect it is the set more than the angle that would give you the ripples. I think I saw on a past thread where someone wanted lines on his lumber and deliberately adjusted the set on a tooth with a pair of pliers and got the look he wanted.

[clintnelms]

YellowHammer, thanks for sharing about the Kubinec system. Definitely going to purchase it soon. Very affordable.

[moodnacreek]

That kubinec strapping is the most expensive strapping made , as far as I know. It also varies in quality and can slip through the buckles some times.  Never the less, I have been using it for 10 years or so and love it.  It is reuseable  many times over.  I put it on the very ends of the bundle at the first and last sticker.

[YellowHammer]

YellowHammer, thanks for sharing about the Kubinec system. Definitely going to purchase it soon. Very affordable.

They make several widths, but the 1/2" light duty is the stuff I use, because it is intentionally relatively weak, and stretches.