Forwarding distances

[earache]

This is meant for the CTL operations overseas. 
I watch forwarders on YouTube going through mid up to the bumper, and it appears as though they are going a long ways. 
Could someone give me an idea how far you forward one way over there? 

[Riwaka]

For a lot of those old videos of log forwarders ploughing through deep mud (in many places), the soil disturbance would now see the logging personnel/ and associated company/ forestry organisation etc  in serious trouble for contravening the current environmental laws  and ' best practice' forestry/ logging operation rules (that have punishments if broken).

Such areas would be more likely to be logged when the ground is frozen or in only the driest of summers to reduce the environmental impact/ soil disturbance.

After a certain distance(depending on the amount of/value of the logs, terrain) logging contractors go for the 8x8 MAN/ Tatra trucks, Bell Timber trucks etc with higher transport speeds than forwarders.

Bell Equipment Africa - Timber Trucks

Bell Timber Truck/ crane
Bell Timber Truck - YouTube

[earache]

What kind of distances do they go to get wood to a landing?

[Riwaka]

Bell Timber truck - vehicle speed is obviously dictated by the condition, slope etc of the rough track between  processor/ loader  and the road truck load out area. 
If the processor is putting out about 600 tons a day, the Bell Timber Truck carries 33 tons, so the timber truck needs to carry around 18 loads per day to keep up, to not have logs building up around the processor and keep full loads available for the road trucks at the load out area.   
Distances usually start at 1/4 mile and go upwards. At .8 of a mile one way (1.6 mile return) driver doing close to 30 miles/ day - plus loading/ unloading.  
H & S factor - onroad truck drivers are kept away from tree felling, swing yarder, processor etc. 

[mike_belben]

What kind of distances do they go to get wood to a landing?

As far as it takes. 

[earache]

Thank you for the insight Mike! 

[barbender]

I'm not overseas. I've skidded up to a mile and a half. We really try to avoid that. We try to keep it to 1/8 to 1/4 mile. Forwarder production really suffers on long skids.

[Ianab]

Need to work your pricing according to the access. 

Trees that are 100 yards from the road, and 10 miles from the mill are worth more (standing) than identical trees that are 50 miles from the mill, and a mile from the road. Harvesting and trucking simply cost more, and that has to come out of the stumpage (The value at the mill or port is the same). 

So if you have to hump logs down a mile of goat track, make sure you are paid to do it. Or weigh up the costs of putting in a temporary road to get trucks into the landing, vs the extra miles with the forwarder / skidder. Either way is going to cost, just which one is less? 

[mike_belben]

 Forwarder production really suffers on long skids.

Im under the impression that the further the stump is from the road, the more a forwarder is the right choice, compared to conventional skidding.  No?  I mean granted no matter how you do it long skids mean more time skidding less time doing other functions.

[barbender]

I dunno, it depends on the size of your forwarder vs size of skidder I guess. If they are both bringing out 5 cords a turn, I don't see the difference. But if the forwarder can haul 6 and the skidder can only get 2, well I hope the skidder has lots of gears😁

[Riwaka]

Comparison  of the speed of the Tigercat skidders-6 wheel vs Tigercat forwarders.
Tigercat 6 wheel skidders  14mph and 13 mph top speed
Tigercat  forwarders 1055C 0-6.8 mph, 1075C (low 0-3.5mph, high 0 - 11mph) , 1085C  (0-4.9 mph)

It is also timber size - be quite time consuming to pick up twigs with a 635. 
MAN 6x6 truck with self loader on a fairly sloppy road.Trucks like this reduce forwarder distances.
Timber Truck MAN 6x6 Russia Yakutia - YouTube

[chevytaHOE5674]

Need to work your pricing according to the access.

Trees that are 100 yards from the road, and 10 miles from the mill are worth more (standing) than identical trees that are 50 miles from the mill, and a mile from the road. Harvesting and trucking simply cost more, and that has to come out of the stumpage (The value at the mill or port is the same).

Our pulp mills pay a differerent price depending on the jobs distance from the mill. This is to make sure that the timber is harvested equally across the area. If they paid the same price to everybody then everything close to the mill would be harvested and nobody would work 200 miles from the mill.

[mike_belben]

Same here.  And i have to admit, thats a really considerate thing of the big paper companies to do that they dont get credit for. The general public has no idea.   I'd never heard of this until i actually called the 2 major pulp mills to get prices back when i was considering going all in and found price hinged on miles from the mill.  

The [more left leaning] general public is only told logging is evil and unsustainable.  Never that the industry really has an enormous interest in the continued existence of future timber too. 

[Ron Scott]

As stated, the skidding and hauling distance to the mill are major costs that need to be considered in your timber appraisal as you determine what you are willing to pay for the timber stumpage. The production costs will very by the working environment.

We always plan for the shortest forwarding distances, but sometimes they have been up to a mile do to terrain, soil, permitted access, wetlands, etc. conditions. 

[nativewolf]

wow, glad Ron jumped in.  I have some tracts where we have a mile run to the landing and there is nothing we can do about it and we have to work hard to get down to a mile.  In fact I'm considering taking @barbender up on his suggestion to contact Ponsse re a new forwarder for our next project.  It will be a $ project but only if logs are flowing to the landing.

[barbender]

Lotsa $$$. I think my forwarder (Ponsse BuffaloKing) outfitted with tracks and chains set the boss back $470K😳 I can't believe I'm allowed to run something that cost that much😁

[Skeans1]

We must do a lot of long turns, most of ours are a minimum of 1300 feet anymore the last job was a mile and half.

[barbender]

That makes for a long day.

[earache]

Efficiency lyes in pd/per horsppwehoof product moved. Forwarders move more lbs/per horsepower than any other in woods method.
The thresd was pertaining to distances traveled by a forwarder from the bunch pile (or stump), to a landing where a truck picks them up. 
Thank you all for the info shared so far. 

[Ken]

When I'm working on private ground I will generally build a bit more road to allow my forwarding distance to be <400m (1330').  Sometimes when I'm working for industry my yarding distances may reach out to 5-600m but I get pretty whiny at that point and the forwarder falls behind the harvester in a hurry.  Ideal is <300m