Pennsylvania Newbie

Magicman · October 11, 2018, 06:34:30 PM

Quote from: GrampawGriz on October 10, 2018, 10:13:04 AMI have plans to build a 750-1000 Mbf solar kiln

I don't believe that you caught Tom's statement about a "huge" kiln. ;)

GrampawGriz · October 11, 2018, 08:07:12 PM

I reckon so. I guess I'm missing something...

Oh...okay. I get it now... Lol.

Ron Wenrich · October 12, 2018, 05:49:38 AM

I think flyboy makes a good point about the weather in PA. Being portable may be seasonal work. You won't be doing much during the winter months, especially if you get much of those lake effects snow storms. When everything melts, you'll also have a mud season. You need to factor those things in on your business plan.

Even as a stationary mill, my most productive months were May and October. The least were the winter months, as logs freeze and the mud that is on them freeze to them. Partially frozen logs will give you fits, and the quality of lumber falls off. How do you justify that with your client?

GrampawGriz · October 12, 2018, 11:05:45 AM

Tom,

I've looked up SCORE Pittsburgh and have gotten started with them, learning more about writing a business plan first. Thanks.

Ron & flyboy,

I've wondered about how seasonal this venture might be from the beginning. I've heard that frozen trees can be sawn, but it sounds like a tedious, potentially problematic process, so I'll probably not get into it. I'm going to roughly set my "season" from April to November, just to leave room for getting rolling in the spring, and shutting down before archery season gets away from me. 😎 Again, thanks for the advice.

Griz

GrampawGriz · October 19, 2018, 03:28:09 PM

Update: This business plan is giving me a headache. Lol.

For those of you who've done it, how did you conduct your market research, exactly? I have some general ideas, but require some solid specifics.

Aside from that, my focus right now is to use the level spot on the property as a place to park the mill (maybe), and definitely as a place to build at least one 750-1,000 BOARD FEET solar kiln, with the possibility of additional kilns in the future, solar or otherwise.

Tomorrow we do a transmission swap and get the business truck back on the road.

God bless,

Griz

Ron Wenrich · October 20, 2018, 07:04:00 AM

Market research can be tricky. First thing you have to do is recognize the market you're trying to address. For the ones I've helped on, we were mainly doing commercial markets. We were also buying either stumpage or logs, not trying to provide a service. So our log supply and our lumber demand were pretty much the commercial side of things.

If you are doing a service, you have to figure out who you're going to sell your service to. A lot of times it will be farmers or individuals that have small properties with occasional logs to saw. That market is a lot harder to nail down. I'd approach a couple of tree trimmers to see if they run into situations where the service would be of value to their clients. You'll be taking a sample. Figure the area where you'll work and expand your sample. It's not perfect, but should give you some idea of demand.

The kiln is a different animal. You'll have to figure out who your market is. I'd contact some woodworking shops in the area and see what their needs are. You might be able to see what types of wood they are looking for and what sort of prices they are paying. I'd also inquire what sorts of things they have a difficult time getting. It could be your niche.

Beyond that, you'll have the hobby woodworker. I'm not sure how you survey that market. But, looking at the size of supply in your area might be helpful. In my area, the box stores have a very limited supply of hardwoods. We had a large mill that had a retail store, but they closed the doors after a couple of years. Seems that the market is thin, and any downturn in the economy is bad for business. It could be that prices are too high for the market.

The other side of the market is the supply. You'll have to figure out who your competition is, and how you can get into the market. If you're looking at a sawing service, you'll have to know who is your competition. You don't have to name them, but you should come up with a number of similar services, and if they are full time or part time. The state should have a list of sawmills in the area. Look at capacity and weed out the commercial operations. They aren't your competition. Same goes for kiln operations.

After all of that, you have to come up with how you're going to compete with them. That's where you need to figure out what the current market price is for your service or product, and how you'll compete. If you can't match the price or beat it, you won't be much competition. And, that's why you need to do the business plan in the first place. To see if it is viable.

GrampawGriz · October 20, 2018, 03:16:56 PM

Ron,

Excellent advice and information. Exactly what I was looking for. I'm already taking notes.

Many thanks.

Griz

tylerltr450 · October 23, 2018, 06:07:35 AM

I would think a 750 , 1000 bdft kiln is a little small, if you do get into heavy cutting you will be waiting for the kiln to finish before you can unload and load in the new stacks. You might be better off looking at getting another one. I also send my stuff out to a guy that can get it done quicker since he has 3 kilns. Might be a good idea to find an option like I have, in order to get our out of tight situation.

Also talk to some local sawyers I have talked to so many of them after getting my mill they all tell you what is going on and who is go to for drying or finishing or so on.

GrampawGriz · October 23, 2018, 04:29:17 PM

Tyler,

I'm thinking the same thing on the kiln size, and considering building two. Maybe.

The thing is, I have to work within my immediate means, which isn't a lot. My Wife and I have sat down and discussed this whole thing very seriously in the past few days, and we're rethinking it. Instead of the LT35, we're probably going with the LT15 Go, to keep initial costs down and still remain portable. In addition, we don't want to have to finance any more than is absolutely necessary. The LT15 Go, two 750-1,000 bf solar kilns, log arch (we're getting a tractor by trade), and a good chainsaw should put us in pretty good shape starting out.

In the next few weeks I plan on talking to a LOT of people, in person. Networking, I think they call it. Should be interesting.

Griz

Southside · October 23, 2018, 08:53:15 PM

The Lt-15 is a great mill, several successful members here have begun their businesses using them and did very well by them. A word of caution has to come with that statement. You really should spend a day working with a sawyer on a manual mill and a day on a hydraulic mill - this will be invaluable time spent in getting a real world understanding of just what is required and what each set up can do. Only you can decide what your physically capable of on a day in day out basis and sawmilling is a very physical venture, manual milling that much more. Those experiences will help you make an educated decision about the value of hydraulics vs the value of a lower investment. Personally I can tell you I would have lost all interest in sawmilling if I had started out with a manual mill, which was my plan until I was talked out of it.

There are plenty of saywers closer to you than I am but you are welcomed to spend a day here if you find yourself in the neighborhood.

tylerltr450 · October 24, 2018, 05:39:11 AM

Quote from: Southside logger on October 23, 2018, 08:53:15 PM
The Lt-15 is a great mill, several successful members here have begun their businesses using them and did very well by them. A word of caution has to come with that statement. You really should spend a day working with a sawyer on a manual mill and a day on a hydraulic mill - this will be invaluable time spent in getting a real world understanding of just what is required and what each set up can do. Only you can decide what your physically capable of on a day in day out basis and sawmilling is a very physical venture, manual milling that much more. Those experiences will help you make an educated decision about the value of hydraulics vs the value of a lower investment. Personally I can tell you I would have lost all interest in sawmilling if I had started out with a manual mill, which was my plan until I was talked out of it.

There are plenty of saywers closer to you than I am but you are welcomed to spend a day here if you find yourself in the neighborhood.

Excellent point before I purchased I helped run a completely manual mill 2 times. After that I knew hydraulics were for me, way to much effort required to turn big logs and load them onto the mill. I felt that I couldn't be efficient enough to run a mill for customer on site.

thecfarm · October 24, 2018, 08:09:56 AM

That's why I say,If I Don't Do it,It Don't Get Done.
I have an all manual mill. But I only saw for myself. There is ALOT of work with a manual mill. AND alot of time wasted too. I would not want to try to make a steady income with a manual mill. Even if I was 20 years old.
Now if sawing slabs or high figure lumber that is worth more than a 2x6 or a 1x8 than that is different.
Watch a video of a hyd mill. Every time that logs is flipped,moved that is once that you have to do it with a cant dog or a peavy. Some logs,well most logs are heavy!!!!!