Career change advice

[Cub]

So I've been working a factory job for 10 years now. I can't stand being trapped indoors. Over a year ago I started to do some logging part time. Weekends and evenings after work. Saws and a forwarder. I've always been in the woods for 20 year but just making firewood with the saw and a Ford 9n tractor. I'm doing a verneer job now. Got another lined up once it freezes up good. Have to look at another possibility tomorrow. Talked with a local consultant forester today and he has 3 that a guy can start anytime and is willing to throw me work because he constantly turns down chainsaw jobs because nobody around does them. So should I stick out being miserable at the factory or take the plunge and go full time? Thought and opinions appreciated. Or just tell me I'm completely crazy that's ok too!! Thanks in advance. 

[Maine logger88]

If you got the work lined up and are not happy at the factory why not! Life is to short not to try to do what we want for work. Now trying to make a living full time in the woods isn't easy and there's some weeks I don't even break even but I would hate to do anything else. Just my take on it. But I also have never had a regular job I've been self employed since high school and the majority of them have been logging so I don't know what a 40 hour a week job with payed vacation is like lol

[Skeans1]

Here's a big question can you afford to take a chance? What about health insurance? Kids? Do you have enough saved up for when times get slow? Big thing with timber is it's not the if it'll get slow it's when. How much of your income are using of your full time job to go out and log?

[mike_belben]

I made great money in the marines, but had enough of it once perpetual war started in 01.  Got out and went poor on my own building race engines.  Plenty of work, just too much equipment and shop overhead, and a market consisting of annoying broke dreamers. Worked 7days a week to just pay for iron.  Debt piled up.

Got the factory job, 10yrs of punching clocks and crummy managers and shop politics.  Housing bubbled timing caught wife and i both,  Lost 2 houses.  She was home with the 2 kids when i quit the job making $32/hr and we moved to a 5acre patch of woods in a camper 900 miles away to start over, knowing no one.  We wanted nothing to do with the urban northeast lifestyle or anyone in it anymore. That included some toxic family relationships that werent otherwise repairable. We wanted to go back in time.  Well the media will tell you tennesseans are backwards so that sounded pretty good to me.

It was a tornado of change and struggle for about 2 years.  Now that dust is settled and stable, We live pretty well on 13/hr and are pretty much debt free.  She likes her job, we go to a great church and have good people in our lives. the kids are happy and come to think of it, there isnt one jerk im stuck dealing with anymore over money. If youre unkind i have no dealings with you, i dont care about the money since i havent had any to spare in 20some years anyway and am no longer bothered by that.  There isnt a job i wont do, from logging and tree climbing to equipment repair and welding to septic pumping or slaughtering hogs, but i only do it for whom im happy to be around.  

And i think im happier than ive ever been.  When you get away from the negativity of this world you can shoulder a lot more burden and suffer a lot more hardship without being miserable.  But if its not just you, thats a huge factor.  If youve got major expenses like most people, thats another.  The wife has to be on board and the banker has to be paid.  I didnt have either option, debt forced it and i thought divorce was a certainty but the struggle and isolation of moving away brought us together and really did fix the marriage.  We have been blessed and i hope you are too.  If you need a change, make one.  Measure the results in happiness, not dollars.

[bushmechanic]

That's philosophical there Mike, but oh so true! Happy for you bud! Cub, life is short do what you enjoy cause you won't get a replay.

[thecfarm]

Did you really mean that second sentence?
Mike said it better than I can.
But I said on another thread,you have to be happy with your job.

[redneckman]

I worked for Lowes Companies Inc. (the hardware store) for 26 years.  I began working in the stores when I was 18 and worked my way all the way into the corporate offices in Mooresville NC.  I designed and purchased the fixtures and displays for the stores.  In 2017, they laid me off.

My family has always been into logging and sawmilling, all the way back to my great grandfather and maybe back further.  When I was growing up, I would go to work with one of my uncles.  He was a logger and I would ride the skidder, or the truck.  Later, I was workign for him.  My first job was at 12 years old pulling cable.  The next was logging the skidder when I was a teenager.  The lifestyle got in my blood and never left.

I remember sitting on the porch with my grandfather as a boy and talking about sawmilling.  He would tell me all kinds of stories from how he cut timber, to how he logged with horses.  He would get Field and Stream magazine.  I would look through the magazine while he talked.  One day, something caught my eye in the back where all the adds would be.  It was a add for a one man, portable sawmill called a Woodmizer.  From that day, I knew I wanted one and every episode of Field and Stream he got, I would look at the Woodmizer ad.  Those were the days before the internet.

About 3 years before Lowes laid me off, I REALLY felt the call to start my own business with a portable sawmill.  However, it would not be the ordinary type.  I wanted it to be my ministry.  The idea was to ask the homeowner if they minded if I prayed from them and just let it be that.  If they wanted to talk more, I was more than willing.  I do not want to push my religion onto someone, but I do want them to know that Christ lives in me and if they want to be a part of that, I can help them find it.  There are people out there that I would come in contact with that will never set foot in a church.  There was only one problem.....money.  I did not have the money to buy a mill.  And, my wife had been laid off 2 times at that point and when that happens you get behind.  No one was going to sell me a mill, and there was no way I could have made enough starting off to pay for it anyway with my other bills.  So, I began praying about it.  My commute one way to work was an hour.  I would pray all the way to work, and all the way back.  My prayer was "God, if you want me to do this, you will have to provide me with a sawmill".

I went to work on February 21st, 2017, just like I always did.  By 9 AM my world had just be turned upside down.  The company that I had poured my heart and soul into for 26 years just threw me to the curb.  However, there was one bit of hope.  They also handed me a check for a large amount of money.  It was a severance deal for my 26 years of service.  My prayers had been answered.  Within a week, I had a brand mew LT 50 Woodmizer on order.

Right after I was let go from Lowes, I got another job working for a vendor that had actually worked for me.  Even though I had prayed for a mill and now I had it, I was very skeptical about actually doing it.  It all was intimidating for me.  So, I took a more easy path and stuck with something I was comfortable with.  My brand new mill actually sat in the shed for about 4 months.  I finally got it out in the fall of 2017 and began trying to learn it.  I did not saw anthing for the winter of 2017.

This year, I sawed for my first customer in April.  It was a humbling experience, but I made it, and made my first customer happy.  Then came another, and another.  I had prayer with them just like I had planned, and they all were very appreciative of it.  I remember one day a brief thought jumped into my head that I shoud quite my job with the vendor and totally rely on God and the business that He has blessed me with.  As soon as the thought entered my mind, I dismissed it, as humans often do.  I was using the job as a fall back plan, a comfort zone.  However, it was preventing me from springing forward with the business as well.  In May of this year, I got the call from my boss that they no longer needed my services.  Lowes had really cut back on orders.  Two weeks later, my wife called me crying and said that her employer (another vendor of Lowes) had just had let her go as well.  Within one year, between she and I, we had been laid off 3 times.  Within 10 years, we had lost our job 5 times; all connected either directly or indirectly to Lowes.

I had enough, and I knew why it happened, and what I needed to do.  I needed to let go of the reins, and that is what I did.  I remebered my favorite verse in the Bible (Mathew 19:26 - With God, ALL things are possible).  I did not know how I would be able to make it, but I put all my faith in God to provide.  I started advertising and handing out business cards.  I began getting some saw jobs.  I also did some other jobs that people wanted done.  Whatever, wherever He sent me, I went.  Since the summer, my wife has got another job, and the business has done well.  More than I would have ever expected for the first year.  There is still the fear of the winter slow down, but my faith is in God that He will provide.  He always has.

I am sorry for such a long post, but it is common for someone to say "put your faith in God", but there is nothing to back it up.  I am not sure if you are a religious person, but you asked for advice.  If I were you, I would pray about it.  If you decide to keep your job, but you cannot get peace about it, there is your answer.  God's direction brings peace of mind.  You will know the right choice, whatever it is when you have that.  Also, somtimes misforture and strife is just His way of leading us down the path He has planned for us.  If this happens, have faith becuase there is likely somethign much better right around the corner.

Good luck my friend.  I will pray for you.  If you want to discuss this more, send me a message.  I started to put this in one to you, but I have a feeing someone else would like to read this too.

[Cub]

I love all the different advice and perspectives on things. I know there will be weeks where I won't break even. I don't use any income from my regular job to go log. If I absolutely need to once I get the log check I pay myself back. Got some quotes on health Ins the other day. About the same as I pay now through work. I don't have much for payments. Mortgage with a low payment compared to most. Small forwarder payment. Then just the electrical and cell phone payment. I'm not overly worried about slow times because we have a few big farms around here that always need people for whatever and there's nothing on a farm that I haven't already done in my life. The girlfriend is self employee also and does very well with her business and she is behind me 100%. Mike, that's a great story. Amazing what you can do once your put in those situations. It almost happened to me in 09and 10. But working 18 hour days 3 different jobs 7 days a week doing whatever the guy on the other end of the phone wanted done saved me. A struggle? Yes for 4-5 years but I did it. Really humbling that's for sure. Redneckman, that is good advice also. I do pray about it. However maybe not as much as I should and am guilty of maybe not listening to what God has said or probably dismissing the ideas that come to me. This change has been with me for a time now but even more so the last 6 months. It's just a scary change. 

[lxskllr]

I'm not a logger, and have no idea what goes on in a modern factory, but I imagine it's tedious. You go in every day, your special little task is laid out for you, and you do it over, and over, and over, and over again. That gets old quick. I have tasks like that in my job. It's frustrating, and mind numbingly boring. If that was all I did, I'd be doing something else.

Logging looks *much* more interesting. On a macro level you're doing the same thing job after job. Machines in, remove trees, machines out. On the micro level, every job requires different logistics to complete, and every tree is a unique individual that requires a different approach. You also have an outlet for personal creativity. The job dictates what's required in the end, but how you get there is up to you. Keeps the brain stimulated, and makes the day pass better.

No answers from me, but money isn't everything. You only get one chance at life, and something like logging is best to try when young if you're gonna do it at all. I have a good idea what I'd do in your position.

[moodnacreek]

I couldn't type long enough to tell my story but I do remember being told God helps those who help themselves.

[mike_belben]

Thats a very uplifting story redneckman and i wish you well in those efforts.  I was an athiest at one point in life, pretty common up north in my age group and below.  Its been said that you dont go seeking God, he finds you.  I can say for sure that was the case in my life, and that if the Lord really wants a relationship with you, he will grind you up and put you on your knees looking for any mercy you can find.  You'll open the door.  I couldnt resist anymore.


Countless times since then i have just given up and said 'its your turn buddy, i cant do this' and in time, he moves the roadblocks or sends the "lucky breaks" along.  Yesterday for instance, i passed my CDL.  4th test.  In a truck loaned by a complete stranger, with another completely separate stranger riding shotgun, and a 3rd stranger helping in another way.  I never drove a 48ft trailer or air brakes other than tests. (my rig is juice brake with a 30ft goose) Well i got tested on it at rush hour in a hilly city during a foggy dark downpour with 2 bad synchros in a truck i never even started before. No pressure right? 2yrs i been trying to "do it on my own" with no luck.  When i figured i was trapped and out of points on 90 alley dock i paused a while and gave the problem to him to deal with. And he did.  Ive got 100 more of these stories.  I didnt need him much in a gravy job at a factory and maybe thats alot of why i was miserable.  People with excess money and easy lives often dont have much use for him.

My ministry is coming on here and trying to troubleshoot other folks problems.  Theres a saying in the bible belt that moodnacreek mentioned, always help a man who's trying to help himself.  He's sent helpers to me and id like him to dispatch me to help others for the glory of the kingdom.  Fixing junk is the skill he gave me.

[Resonator]

To add to what's been already said, I left behind 20 years as a truck driver this year to "chase the sawdust dream" and start my own business. Here are a few things I've learned:
The hardest part is getting started, the 1st goal is to just survive and learn from your mistakes.
Money isn't everything, at the end of the day it is only green paper.
I can always make more money, I cannot make more time. I am grateful for everyday I can live doing what I love to do.
If you are self employed, you will never be fired. (Dave Ramsey)
Learn as much as you can about your type of work, customers will think your an expert. (Read the Forum! )
Get a good Lawyer and a good accountant.
Know your budget numbers. Be cautious about debt. Keep track of your non-essential assets, and be able to liquidate them if you need short term cash flow.
Work hard. Pray hard. Get a good nights rest, and do it all over again.
Good luck!

[Pclem]

As others have said, watch your debt. It's a trap I gave in to. I thought I could "outearn my stupidity", as Dave Ramsey likes to say. 6 months out of the year, we do well. The other 6, well I just started punching the clock for the first time in 5 years full time until May 1st, then 2 days a week from May til Dec 1st again. I'm grateful to have an employer who is flexible. Firewood sales and skidsteer work boom all summer into fall, then mid winter til spring, we don't make enough to sustain. If I didn't dig ourselves into debt thinking "this new piece of equipment will fix everything", well, we'd be sitting more comfortably. And also as others have said, pray for guidance. All too often, I find myself questioning and wondering, " What if... if only I'd... I should"ve... That's when I need to trust God knows what He's doing with me. Good luck Cub

[maple flats]

I agree. I worked for a retail chain, in management, for 7 years. Then I quit to pursue my dreams. After 3 years I bit the bullet and took a factory job. I made good money but it just wasn't me, I quit 18 mos. later and started my own business. That did well and I stayed at it for 21 years at which time I sold the business and 3 weeks later I decided to drive school bus for a supplemental income. During that time, I started my maple syrup business and finally after 19 years driving I retired from that but I still take some sub driver or trips driver calls.
After 1 year in maple I knew I needed to build a sugarhouse and I spent the summer cutting hemlocks and hauling them to a sawyer 2 miles down the road. He took too long to saw a load after the first 2 loads, and I then bought my sawmill. For a few years I did several portable sawmill jobs but later decided to only take a few and only if they were hauled to my location (so I could use my equipment to handle logs, lumber and the scrap slabs.
I've had a good life, enjoying what I do and we raised 4 great kids along the way. My wife of 51 yrs now was surprised when I quit that first job with nothing lined up, and we had 2 kids at that time. However, she always supported my choices and we have both been happier thru life.
Now I have (in retirement) a few jobs. I'm a landlord (own 2 real nice duplexes), a farmer (maple and blueberry) and once in a while I do a saw job at my location.
My advice: follow your dreams, but don't try to keep up with the newest, most modern equipment. Pay your fixed expenses, then yourself before buying any new equipment. If times get tough, take a side job until thing pick back up and lastly, enjoy every day. Life's too short to work a job you do not like.

[Cub]

You guys have all been a bundle of positivity!! Thank you all for your thoughts, opinions, encouragement and thing to watch out for. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending money. I would rather have it in my pocket than give it to the bank on payments just to have nice looking fancy stuff. That's not me. I drive a 1970 chev truck and a 2000 Pontiac gran prix that has 350,000 miles in it. I don't like payments. My forwarder might be old and ugly n weep oil from everywhere and a little slower but it works good virtually no down time and it's almost paid for. I always make sure my bills are paid before I spend anything extra. 

[Puffergas]

If the factory job hasn't destroyed your health, go for it! Otherwise it will turn you into a health care junkie.

[BargeMonkey]

 Jump slowly and work like your always hungry. I made the switch and honestly I regret it. 

[Maine372]

here is what's working for me.

I have one highly seasonal job. good hourly rate, and all the hours I care to work. but when the season is over the hours and money dry up quick. logging gets me through the slow season.

building my name and reputation little by little. work is starting to find me. maybe this is the start to logging full time, maybe logging will always play second fiddle. either way this arrangement allows me to pay the bills and do what I love.

[kiko]

I say go for it!! I have been self employed for most of my working life and would not have it any other way.  My biggest challenge has been figuring out to keep doing the job as I age .  When I was in my 20s and early 30s there was no one around me that could out work or out last me. I thought everybody that complained about being sore or tired was just plain lazy. I worked 100 hours weeks for years on end.  I pulled 52 hours straight one time during that stretch.  Well at 46 my body shows the wear, big time.  It is not hard for logging to be a Seven day a week job, there will always be something that needs tending to as to be ready for Monday.
CASH FLOW IS NOT PROFIT!!!!
THE RAIN WILL COME
THE MACHINES WILL BREAK DOWN 
   AND GET STUCK AND BREAK DOWN
HYDRAULIC OIL IS PRECIOUS GOLD
IF YOU WORK FOR A TIMBER BUYER 
   YOU COULD BE EXPECTED TO DO
   EXTRAS ON YOUR DIME WITH YOUR
   EQUIPMENT FOR FREE, CAREFULL .
CASH FLOW IS NOT PROFIT!!!
   

[Cub]

I can't thank you guys enough for the opinions. The factory hasn't destroyed my health. I've been there 8 years n always had a pretty simple job. When I was on the floor as a machine operator nobody could keep up with me. 3 years ago I took a desk job. I'm just tired of working hard for someone else and low pay. If I'm going to work all day and not get paid enough for what I do I'd rather do it for myself. I'm 37 and there's very few people that can keep up with me through a week. Bargemonkey, what about making the switch do you regret so much?  

[mike_belben]

I thought everybody that complained about being sore or tired was just plain lazy. I worked 100 hours weeks for years on end.  I pulled 52 hours straight one time during that stretch.  Well at 46 my body shows the wear, big time.  
 

Same.  USMC moto is 'pain is weakness leaving the body' and its an organization that promotes duct taping yourself together to stay in the fight and kill a few more before you expire.  Do or die, No whining.  
That worked when i was 18.  20 years later theres only a few joints not aching at all times. Doesnt matter what i do or dont do.  Just sitting still hurts.  My dad warned me and i didnt listen, i thought he was a wimp.  Im sure my boy will think same of me and one day be worn out too. 

[Ken]

Cub
As has been mentioned it is very hard to give up a steady pay if you have a family relying on you.  However if you're not happy at work I suspect it must make for some long days.  I've worked for myself for a very long time and although I put in a boatload of hours every week I enjoy what I do and can't imagine what it would be like to not enjoy my job.  If there are job opportunities that would help in the lean times and you have a strong work ethic go for it.  Good luck

[Cub]

Thank you all for the words of encouragement. This forum is full of knowledgeable and very helpful people. I'm glad to hear from all you guys that enjoy going to work everyday. No amount of money can buy happiness that's for sure. I have some pondering to do on this subject yet. It's a big decision to be made. I will let you all know what I decide to do when the time comes. Thank you all again!!