stain or paint exterior diy cedar shutters?

[DPForumDog]

We have tons and tons of eastern red cedars ( Juniperus Virginiana)  on our property.  We would like to make exterior shutters for our home from eastern red cedar.   I either want to paint the shutters a dark blue or stain them to look like dark Walnut. (not weathered grey cedar)   After research I have learned that some folks say that paint will not adhere to ERC very well.  Others say if we  use an oil base primer that the paint would adhere fine.  I also read that some folks say that stain will not adhere even if it has poly on it.  How would just stain without poly work? I have used timber oil on a treated pine deck and learned I have to reaplly the timber oil every two years so I know i do not want to use timber oil.   I am looking for something that is low low maintenance.  I don't want to have to repaint or restain in my life time.  
We could mill red oak or ash etc but they would require longer dry time and  i was thinking ERC would stand time better.
Also we have not milled the ERC  for the shutters yet.  We normally just let it air dry.   Would that do for exterior shutters?
Any and all discussion appreciated.  
Thanks
Granny DP
DP ForumDog

[lxskllr]

I don't have much insight, but never dealing with an outside wood product again is a pretty tall order. Closest thing to that would probably be "plasticizing" the wood. A buddy of mine got some stuff for his wood sided farmhouse, and I helped him apply it. It was a 2 part solution that was insanely expensive(can't quite remember, but I want to say $150/G*2), and was purported to freeze rotten bits of wood in time. IOW, it stopped the rot, and preserved the rest. I think it was developed for ships. We painted over it, but it didn't look /too/ bad unfinished, but it had a hard plasticy appearance up close.


edit:
I think this may be the product...

West System 105-B Epoxy Resin (.98 gal) with 206-B Slow Epoxy Hardener (.86 qt) and Epoxy Metering Pump Set: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


A little cheaper than I remembered

[moodnacreek]

Cedar lumber that has been through a planer can get a mill glaze on it that can peel later. [e.r.c. is juniper so I'm not sure] and if painted to soon the glaze and finish peel.  This cedar is supposed to age outside a year or so and then finished.   Shutters made from the red heartwood should last a long time.

[Woodpecker52]

ASK Sherwin WIlliams

[btulloh]

Are these going to have louvers or panels?  Making louvered shutters is quite a big project.

I've used quite a bit of ERC for outdoor items.  Doors, tables, window casing.  Air dry worked fine even for the door.  Make sure to account for seasonal wood movement.

As far as finish goes, I don't know of any way a film type finish such as paint or poly is going to hold up over time without the need to sand and refinish.  There's just too much movement from the wood and paint or poly is going to eventually loose the adhesion.  I'd certainly like to know how to have a maintenance-free coating.  Maybe something made from Unicorn horn.   :D

An oil finish will be easier to renew but it's not going to retain the color you're looking for.  It still may be the best way to go.  I've used Spar Varnish (poly) on doors and tables and it works well but has to be sanded and re-done every few years.  I tried some Minwax Teak Oil on some ERC window casings and it seems to be working well after three years.  It has weathered to a dark brownish red.  It will also need a re-application - probably this year.  It looks like it can be just cleaned and re-applied.  The MinwaxTeak Oil seems to be more of a thin varnish than a true oil.  I'd like to try some timber oil on ERC but haven't yet.  It still would need attention on a regular basis.

I do believe ERC can hold paint if that's the way you want to go.  It won't hold paint forever though.  That mention about mill glaze is important too, if you go with paint.  Rough up the surface with some 100 grit if it has been through the planer.

Good luck.  Looking forward to see how your shutters turn out.

[DPForumDog]

Thanks everyone.
We would make non function board and batten exteriors shutters.   I had already read that the ERC should be rough cut right off the mill and no planing. 

I was thinking maybe if we just used a good outdoor stain without no poly finish.   I understand that nothing is maintenance free but I would like the finish to last 10 years or so.  We get more than 10 years on the wood shutters on our city house and those wood shutters are 30 years old.  I wish I knew what kind of wood they were.  We recently had them painted with an exterior water base latex.

[btulloh]

Personally I think the outdoor stain is your best bet.  Sounds like you've got a plan.

[Magicman]

You absolutely can successfully stain ERC. 


 
I used this 10+ years ago and no peeling or anything.  I used a roller and it soaks in.  I would think that any brand would be OK.

[Don P]

As far as letting wood weather before applying a finish, I believe the current thinking frowns on that, I know we used to do that. You are trying to adhere the finish to degraded fiber which gives poor adhesion. If you need to open up the wood surface, sanding would be a better way rather than weathering. I personally hate scraping and sanding so prefer stains.

[btulloh]

I personally hate scraping and sanding so prefer stains.

I'm still looking for someone who DOESN'T hate scraping and sanding.:D

[Ruffgear]

I agree with magic, should be no problems with outdoor stain. I would recommend staying away from film finishes. Sikkens and penofin are couple brands often used around me. How often they have to be finished often depends on sun exposure.

[Woodpecker52]

Stay away from any stain with linseed oil.  Black mold thrives on it!

[DPForumDog]

You absolutely can successfully stain ERC.  


 
I used this 10+ years ago and no peeling or anything.  I used a roller and it soaks in.  I would think that any brand would be OK.

Thanks MagicMan!  So you used Benjamin Moore Acrylic Solid Exterior stain with success.   I was hoping to use a semi-transparent to show some woodgrain.   I may make a sample using the solid stain.   Did you use two coats?
Thanks
Granny DP

[DPForumDog]

If I use solid stain it would probably hide any grain of the eastern red cedar.  That makes me wonder if we should just use red oak or white oak and put a semi transparent stain on the oak. I wonder if the semi transparent stained oak would hold up over the years or would we eventually end up painting the oak.  

I actually read where some folks have used pine for exterior shutters with success.  That scares me but I guess if they keep the pine painted the exterior pine shutters would last a very long time.

Thanks
Granny DP

[Don P]

One thing with longevity is the clearer a finish is the deeper the UV gets into it so the shorter it lasts. Finish is basically dirt and glue, the more "dirt" the longer it protects the "glue" from the sun.

[alan gage]

I used a semi-transparent oil based stain on my western red cedar siding and it lasted 3-4 years before it looked like it needed a re-coat. I sold the house before I got around to it and it looks like the new owner used a solid stain. I haven't asked her yet to confirm. You can't "see" the wood like you could before but it's still very attractive and you can tell that it's wood siding from the texture. 

Alan

[Magicman]

Did you use two coats?

One coat and you can still see the wood texture.



Bucket label is different but this is the same stain that we used on the Cabin.  

 
This isn't ERC but the results are the same.



The "grooves" are still wet here but this is the only closeup picture that I have showing the texture.

[Kindlinmaker]

I'm with moodnacreek and btulloh on this one.  Good luck putting any film coat on cedar. I don't have much experience with ERC but I have a fair amount with WRC and white. Neither of these will readily hold a film finish but they will hold semi transparent well and there are stains that will take 2 coats, appearing nearly solid. Some semi transparent will last 7 or more years aesthetically. Color range availability is not as diverse as solids but it works. Mill glaze, moisture content, application temperature and humidity will affect the outcome with film coatings. I have also wondered if the acid in the wood doesn't have something to do with it as well because I've seen the first coat failure on well maintained wood that has been painted a couple times and several years after the first application; what an expensive mess. I know of houses with solid stain that get scraped and touched up every year to the tune of 2k-5K per year and this has been going on for 20 years with first coat failure bit by bit.  I've never thought about dimensional change mentioned by btulloh but it is possible.  I also use non-film primer for bright trim colors. Both the non transparent stain and non-film primers wear off over time without peeling; just a little bleach brushed in and rinsed preps for for the next painting.  These can also be readily sanded for a color change. Cedars are naturally durable. I've sanded 20 year old WRC and stained with non-transparent to look brand new. Staining is just adding a bit of UV protection and aesthetics. I've had various painters and paint reps look at problems and all they ever seem to agree on is the film stain is falling off. BTW, redwood acts similarly. 

[moodnacreek]

In the past few years I have been using Wolman/Rustoleum F&P stains. So far so good.