Pricing logs

[AndyCollins13]

Can anyone give me an idea as to a fair price to pay for fresh cut walnut and pecan logs? They are from 16" to 22" in diameter and are approximately 10 ft long. I have just purchased a new Norwood HD 36 sawmill and am looking to get a verity of lumber to have on hand. I have never had to buy logs before and I don't know what would be a fair price to pay. These are not top quality logs and I think the seller is pricing them to high. Any and all response will be greatly appreciated.

[moodnacreek]

Up here at my small mill I pay $ 1.00 bd. ft. int. for decent , say 2 sides clear, walnut. About half that for junk walnut. This is from small producers. Real loggers know where to go. Thanks to the d.o.t. the little guy won't go far. If they bring in real good walnut I may pay more but I tell them I am not a high grade buyer and where he is. They probably hate me. On the pecan we have only hickory here and it has little value and it won't keep at all in log form plus the p.p.b. think it is candy in any form.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Do you have a use or market for the lumber? If so I would base what I would pay or my need or expected return for the lumber. Also factor in your sawing costs, transportation, storage, additional processing (Kiln, planning, T&G, etc.) that you will incur. When you do that you will find they aren't likely worth near as much as the seller thinks they should be. 

   I am not the expert log buyer. I paid for 4 cherry logs and I paid transport for a load of red oak logs. I still have not recovered my investment for that - I may but it will be a long time coming. I was given one big walnut I had to take to another mill with a slabber unit as too big for my mill. It has been over a year and I just sold one slab a few weeks ago and I may have just barely broken even for the sawing and mileage. If I can sell the rest I might make some profit but it have been a long time coming. 

    Moody is probably right on the walnut and unless you have a specific need or market the pecan might be more valuable in the smoker. Good luck and a big old War Eagle.

[YellowHammer]

Most likely, if you think the log prices are too high, they are.  If you think the logs are as you say "not top quality" then you are probably correct.  

In my experience, if a person wants to sell logs to you, a new guy just breaking in, it's generally because they have been blackballed or are otherwise unwelcome from the professional mills so can't sell there, they don't know the true market price as a function of grade and when they went to sell them to a mega mill previously, they felt they felt ripped off even if they are given fair market price, or they actually know the prices of the logs and are just going to try to take advantage of you.  I've had all three situations happen to me so many times, I can't count them.  So if a guy wants you to buy logs that seem low quality, at what you feel is too high a price, go with your gut.  Then reduce the price to about half, and you'll probably be in the right ballpark.

Only a very, very small percentage of people who want to sell to the little guy are worth dealing with, and they are pure gold to have, and great to work with.  They are also very, very rare.  

Just today I had a guy call me up and tell me what a deal he was going to make me, how he had cut 8 big walnuts down, and how he sold the good logs to a "real" mill and figured since I was a "Hobbiest" then I would be happy to pay him for all the limbs and low grade he still had on hand.  He made sure that I knew he "knew how much walnut logs were worth" and I better not try to "rip him off".  I about came unglued, because he outright admitted he was going to try to take advantage of me and sell me third cuts, the limbs off the trees, and figured since I wouldn't know any better, it wouldn't matter.  He figure since the "real" mill up the road wouldn't buy them, I would.  

So the key, is to know better, and the a good step is doing what you are doing, asking questions.  Get to know your Doyle scale, and the definitions of log grades and then go to your nearest professional sawmill, and try to buy some logs from them, or at least talk to them about what it would cost.  

It's definately a buyer beware situation.  Never make a deal until the logs show up at your place, and you scale and grade them appropriately.

Many loggers are really good and highly professional, but if they are, then they are probably affiliated with the big mills, and certainly would have a way to move good walnut.  Pecan, on the other hand, is not a high value wood, and around here sells for hickory prices, 35 cents per bdft, or for firewood.  

[moodnacreek]

Above post by Y.H. is excellent advise, probably learned the hard way.  Most non logger suppliers can't see the logs in a tree [if there are any] let alone cut them the proper way. They couldn't do it for themselves let alone a sawmill. And you will never be able to tell them.  If you ever find a good man to bring you decent logs, pay cash on the spot and a little more.

[Brad_bb]

I'm in Walnut country.  High value walnut is logged and bought up by a one guy locally and hauled downstate to be resold and then it gets put in a container and shipped far away.  That stuff goes mostly for veneer I think.  He's not good to deal with.  In fact he won't sell me anything.  He's very protective and guarded and not easy to deal with.  I think he thinks everyone is competition, but I'm not.  Whenever I've talked to him he tries to trip me up, not believing that I don't sell wood, but I don't.  I don't think he trusts anybody.

There aren't any big mills around here, but there are a bunch of small band mills. Everyone gets what walnut they can and sells the veneer if they can and saw the rest.  I'm sure every small band mill guy has resources or contacts they've developed.  That's the only way small guys can do it.  You have to use urban logs too.  With walnut it's usually worth it though, even if you find a few with nails.

I don't sell wood.  I use everything myself.  I have use for almost every bit of the tree.  From 5" limbs to good sawlogs.

I have had 3 sources for my walnut.  1. a Firewood guy that I have established a relationship with.  He gets his logs free from a number of tree services(established relationships) and they are both urban and rural trees.  He sets the walnut aside for me and any nice saw logs of various species.  He has plenty of wood for his firewood business so it's gravy for him.  2. Another firewood guy that I met through the first firewood guy.  He has brought me several dump trailer loads of walnut.  3. I met a guy in a ford dealership waiting area who turned out to be in charge of an investing group that bought farmland.  He had a farm that they pushed over 20 walnut trees to make more cultivated land.  The original logger never showed up (I'm sure he had waited too long and the venneer buyer probably would not longer buy the premium logs) and I ended up buying the wood from him.  2 semi loads, my biggest score which had quite a mix of high grade big logs, table slab grade, on down to limb wood that I use. The owner loved that I took most of the limb wood and left the place with very little to burn except the stumps and very small brush.  I spent 4 days bucking the logs and preparing/positioning them for the log hauler.

The point is, you have to develop relationships.  You need to deal friendly and fairly.  You need to be honest and true to your word.  You need to be able to scale and grade logs quickly to give the seller an idea of what you will pay.  Once those relationships are established, hopefully you will develop enough trust that dealing will get easier.  They will know you're a square dealer.

So far, I want to have no more than $1 to $1.50/BF Doyle scale into walnut logs landed in my yard.  Higher grade, and longer logs (straight) are worth the most to me as I make beams from those.  The limb wood a much lower price.