Novice here - what machine to skid logs?

[rking453]

I've been doing my own firewood for a few years now, using a JD 3032E with a grapple on a few acres. I just purchased 120 acres of mostly woods near where I live. I would really like to pull wood off this property not just for my own firewood but thinking of selling a little bit every year. Not necessarily to make money, I work a desk job and really enjoy just being out in the woods, cutting trees and running equipment on my days off.

I like the 3032E for some stuff, but it's small light and tippy. I'm looking for recommendations on what type of equipment to buy to safely operate on the property. The property has a lot of flat area but a couple steep ravines leading down to creeks. Not avoidable to reach the rest of the land. There are dozer trails cut in from the last time it was logged. I could pretty much avoid any side-hilling but there would be fairly steep climbs up and down the ravine.

I'm looking to spend around 15k maybe 20k.

I've though about an older 4WD tractor, 65-80 HP with a skidding winch. I could stay on the trails and reach just about anything with the winch. Something like a JD 1650 for example. 2WD tractors can be found in much better shape for the same price. not sure about that.

I've also thought about a smaller dozer, like a 350D with a winch. Seems like this would be better for the hills, but slower which might be okay for me. Seems like dozers in my price range tend to be fairly old though, and I have heard they can be money pits. It would be nice to have one to clean up some of the rougher trails. 

Also though about just getting a small skidder like a JD 440. I have no experience running a skidder, not sure how they are to maintain or how they would handle the hills.

I'm pretty handy at fixing stuff, but on the other hand my free time is limited. If I have time off I would much rather be out in the woods than constantly wrenching.

I'm interested to hear what you folks with a lot more experience than me recommend. I'm not ready to buy just yet, so I'm not looking for exact machines that are for sale now. Just trying to get an idea what route to go so I can start learning more and researching.

Thanks for your time! 

[sawguy21]

Welcome aboard! What are the length and approximate weight are your turns? How far you skidding? What is the terrain? I have seen crawlers used for skidding on soft ground but they are slow and cumbersome. A farm tractor with a Farmi winch might be better but 2wd limits what can be pulled and they are easy to flip if the operator isn't careful. Can you get an arch skidder that is in decent condition for a reasonable price?

[Ianab]

For a part time firewood gig I think a decent tractor will work OK. What's the terrain like? As that will determine if you need a 4WD. Soft ground or hills and you will appreciate the 4WD for sure.   A farm tractor isn't the ideal machine for logging, you have to be more careful as they aren't guarded like a skidder or other "bush rigged" machine. Don't go charging over loose branches and bushes as something will reach up and cause mayhem. But if you are just working for yourself and can take the time, plan what you are doing and keep your trails clear.

A tractor is more of a multipurpose tool, it's not perfect for any one job, but it's able to do a wide variety of tasks. A winch / front end loader / logging arch? would make it a versatile machine for a small firewood operation. For a commercial logging?, a tractor isn't up to it.  A skidder is THE machine for dragging logs, but that's all it really does.

A dozer is better for winching and forming trails, but it's not great for moving logs any distance. Local loggers might use one to drag logs out of a steep gully, but then hook them up to a skidder to actually move them any distance. With 120 acres there will be some distance involved. Hook a log under a skidding arch and you can drive your tractor a 1/2 mile with no worries. 

[stavebuyer]

You have a pretty good grasp of the options. Anything in that price range other than a tractor will be a money pit. If you have roads a 2wd tractor with chains will do the most for the least, especially during the dry months. Anything much over a compact 4WD tractor with FEL is going to push your budget unless its older and off-brand. I am the conservative type and I prefer my stuff to be paid for. If you are generating income, you can justify something a little beyond your budget. I would use the tractor you have, work carefully, subsidize your operating expense out of pocket as a hobby and build up a little equipment fund out of the log sales. Really you need to be in the 30-40k range to have a tractor or skidder you can work with instead of working on. For a landowner scenario a 60-80hp 4wd tractor is a good all around machine to own for 120 acres. The loader should be SSQA and have a 3rd valve.

You can't run over much with a tractor. Thats slow but not necessarily a bad thing. I have seen a world of damage done to leave trees from driving to trees rather than pulling cable. Human nature. But pulling that cable and doing some TSI as your cutting tractor roads and a clear cable route can pay you dividends on land you own that someone cutting commercially doesn't benefit from.

[bluegrasspicker]

I started with a 2WD that I sweet talked into the purchase of my farm. 

It's a great tractor, but with a front end loader it's really easy to get stuck.  That's on hilly ground in the woods with a winch on the back.  Being stuck facing downhill and trying to reverse up the hill gets old fast!  And it only takes a fraction of a second to break a tire loose, then the death dance where you just get more stuck, then the quiet solitude of the woods and a long walk back home to come up with a plan.

Just this last year I bought a '73 4wd tractor.  I can't tell you how much easier life is with it.

Maybe I was lucky, but it came in way under the stated price point and is well worth the investment!

Something else to think about with the non-2wd option is a health factor...  When I was running the 2wd tractor that was easy to get stuck, I'd sometimes find myself driving it a little on the fast side in order to not get stuck.  It motivated me away from the "slow and deliberate" approach that helps a person enjoy their farm a little longer.

[thecfarm]

I have a 40 hp tractor that I work in the woods. Big enough? Just have to make more trips and get a big log, can't haul it out 16 foot long.
You said selling? I suppose you meant firewood in tree length?
I think the money is in logs.
I work a 40-50 hour work week. Hard to cut logs and have family time too. All the sawmills want fresh logs, not sitting there for a month.
I cut anything I leave in the woods short, meaning no longer then 2 feet. That is what I aim for. Yes, takes time, but I can drive through my slash without damage to my tractor. It lays down better and will rot faster too. I am very fussy with my land. It all takes time. Time is money.
I take a bucket full of rocks and fill in any wet hole that I am crossing. Again, takes time.
Have fun and welcome to the forum.

[BargeMonkey]

 Everything they all said. How much actual wood do you have to cut ? Make sure it's got a decent ROPs bar that's not all cobbled up. There was a local fatality here ? 10+yrs ago with a farm tractor skidding wood, he never saw it coming and got driven into the steering wheel, tractor kept going. If someone was looking for a small farm dozer I saw about the cleanest low hour 400G deere with a winch for sale in OH on marketplace for low 20s. Hunt around a bit you can find something dual purpose, decent newer tractor, find one with the skidsteer attach plate if you get one with a loader. Saw a real nice shape 2120 Ford go for 12k in mass, the stuffs around.

[Magicman]

Whatever you get, it needs to be 4X4. 

Update your profile with your location so that we will know and can better answer questions.

[AndyVT]

I'm in a similar situation although I only have 50 acres of steep, wet forest land. Started out with small JD crawlers back in the early days but eventually bought a 4wd tractor which was a good improvement. Finally upgraded to a much larger tractor with a PTO winch and grapple and a JD 450c dozer with the forestry package. I feel this is the ideal combination for my situation.

[mudfarmer]

I could pretty much avoid any side-hilling but there would be fairly steep climbs up and down the ravine.

How steep? With a tractor+winch you might need to drop the hitch at the bottom of the hill, drive up and then winch in when you get to the top. Last winter that was every hitch for me to get over a particular hill once my trail was iced in. Wheelies are fun but only when you are trying to do them on purpose! If it's crazy steep you still might end up doing the same thing even with a skidder.

Brake steering with a full load and light front end on a nice packed trail sure is nice though. Good luck!

[DanielW]

A decent older tractor with a winch should do just fine. Newer might be better for reliability and knowing what you're getting, but bush tractors tend to get beat to heck. You want a decently heavy one, and the older units have a lot more pig-iron and heft than the new ones you'd get for the same price.

I'd be looking at an 80's Kubota M-series or Ford 5610 or 6610 (or similar). Very simple, solid, hefty, indestructible units. We did one heck of a lot of logging with an old 2WD Ford 5000 back in the day. The record for two of us with that tractor was 40 minutes from the time the tractor and triaxle logging truck pulled into the bush, trees standing, to pulling out with the truck loaded to the hilt and heading to the mill. That was without a winch or log grapple either - just using the three point with a skidding hook and the front end loader on the tractor to load. It might have been slow compared to some fancier or newer setups but it felt fast to us, and for what you're doing a similar setup with a slightly newer tractor should do just dandy.

[47sawdust]

I would go with a 45hp,minimum, 4wd tractor with loader,SSQA,and a 3 pt hitch remote controlled winch.A tractor that has easy access to the seat and a flat platform will make for easier on and off.The M4900,M5700 Kubota's would be a good choice as well as comparable NH or JD.
As you know,it is all hard work so buy the rig that doesn't wear you out getting on/off.Think Timberjack skidders,one step up,one step down

[rking453]

I could pretty much avoid any side-hilling but there would be fairly steep climbs up and down the ravine.

How steep? With a tractor+winch you might need to drop the hitch at the bottom of the hill, drive up and then winch in when you get to the top. Last winter that was every hitch for me to get over a particular hill once my trail was iced in. Wheelies are fun but only when you are trying to do them on purpose! If it's crazy steep you still might end up doing the same thing even with a skidder.

Brake steering with a full load and light front end on a nice packed trail sure is nice though. Good luck!

Nothing crazy steep, around 40 ft elevation change in 100 yards if I stay on the trail at the steepest point. Great idea on winching up with the blade down on steeper sections vs pulling the logs up. Sounds a lot safer.

[rking453]

Everything they all said. How much actual wood do you have to cut ? Make sure it's got a decent ROPs bar that's not all cobbled up. There was a local fatality here ? 10+yrs ago with a farm tractor skidding wood, he never saw it coming and got driven into the steering wheel, tractor kept going. If someone was looking for a small farm dozer I saw about the cleanest low hour 400G deere with a winch for sale in OH on marketplace for low 20s. Hunt around a bit you can find something dual purpose, decent newer tractor, find one with the skidsteer attach plate if you get one with a loader. Saw a real nice shape 2120 Ford go for 12k in mass, the stuffs around.

I would only need probably 20 cord a year for my own purpose. I wouldn't mind doing around double that, maybe more with good equipment that makes it more enjoyable. I am definitely not going to purchase anything without a ROPS bar... Not worth the risk for me.

[NE Woodburner]

I have two wood lots that I manage totaling about 55 acres. Some hills, some wet areas on each property. I have a 45 Hp 4wd tractor with grapple and 3ph logging winch. Although once in a while I wish the tractor was a bit bigger, I can manage some pretty big logs with this setup. I also have a home built log splitter.

My favorite way to process firewood is to fell a tree, cut off the brush and leave it where it lays, buck up the log into manageable lengths, if necessary, and skid out to a landing with the winch. I do have a couple of areas where I have to drop the hitch at the bottom of a hill and winch up the hill as mudfarmer mentioned.

When I get to the landing I drop the hitch and mark the cut lengths with my Mingo paint marker, then pick up the log with the grapple and cut at just below waist height. This keeps the saw out of the ground, is faster cutting and easier on my back. Once I have the log bucked up I split them and stack them, then go after another tree. To me this system works well for me as I only cut on weekends. If I get snow during the week all my previous work is not buried or frozen to the ground.

I don't sell firewood but I do give some away to friends and neighbors in need because I tend to be at least 3 years ahead with cut, split and seasoned firewood for my own use and can't use all I cut. Even at that rate I don't thin the woods enough with firewood cutting and have had both lots logged over the years to manage growth and create some income to pay taxes. I don't have a dump truck to deliver and really don't want to get into that while working full time.

[tawilson]

I would go with a 45hp,minimum, 4wd tractor with loader,SSQA,and a 3 pt hitch remote controlled winch.A tractor that has easy access to the seat and a flat platform will make for easier on and off.The M4900,M5700 Kubota's would be a good choice as well as comparable NH or JD.
As you know,it is all hard work so buy the rig that doesn't wear you out getting on/off.Think Timberjack skidders,one step up,one step down

All of the above plus power steering. Probably standard on 4wd anyways.

[Woodfarmer]

I started with a jd 3130 80hp 2wd and a Farmi 501 winch. Was no good as soon as the snow fell. Then I got a CaseIh 5230 fwa 90hp. Greatest tractor ever. Does everything I need it to do.

[John Mc]

You might be surprised how much of what you need to get done with your current tractor, if properly equipped. I use one not all that much different from yours on  my own 144 acres plus another 115 I own jointly. I added a belly pan, grill guard, limb risers, forestry grapple, and logging winch. It does what I need to do, it just takes a bit longer than it would with a larger tractor. If I were starting over, I probably would start with something bigger.

While you probably can do what you need with a small compact tractor, if you are thinking of bumping up in size, now is the time to do it. You don't want to put a whole lot of effort and expense into modifying your existing tractor and buying attachments sized appropriately for that tractor, then end up deciding a couple of years down the road you need to upgrade and start the whole process over.