Ultimate slabbing setup....

[Sleepn]

First post ya'll and its pretty loaded, thanks in advance for any help! 

Looking for a bit of advice on slabbing. I'm located down in New Zealand and run a small operation on the side of my day job but looking to scale up and potentially make it a full time gig. You're in for a bit of a novel...

Currently we run a Lucas 10/30 with a slabbing attachment. Its a great setup, super versatile, economical to run and we don't intend on getting rid of it, but I'm keen to explore a more efficient setup, predominately with regards to slabbing and I'm really interested in peoples thoughts on running extra wide bandsaws for slabbing (95% of what we slab is macrocarpa / cypress or cupressus macrocarpa by botanical name - a medium density softwood I guess!)

We are basically a fixed site, and looking at throwing down a concrete pad / shed to handle the milling as well so portability is low on the factoring. 

Options:

Adding a dedicated slabber to the Lucas setup. 

Purchasing a Peterson DWS slabber. 

Purchasing a wide bandsaw. 


Options explored:- 

Lucas Mill: 

The Lucas slabber is great but chain speed is on the lower side as it runs through the swing blade gearbox and the throat capacity is almost enough for what we do but the dedicated slabber would increase chain speed and allow up to a 1.9m cut. The beauty of this setup is that with two powerbeads, one can easily be slabbing until close to the pith or change tact mid log and not hesitate to mill dimensional lumber for part of the log. For an extra couple of thousand you can get the full tracks as well and basically have two working mills if you want to run both or have them both setup ready to go.  

Portability is great with this machine, however we only work from home anyway so it can be a permanent setup and with respect to trueness of slab cuts, particularly when we get down to the bandsaw option, we could add the planer attachment to this to flatten slabs. 


Peterson DWS: 

A Peterson DWS mill has a much faster chain speed by utilising a jackshaft and in theory cuts much faster than the dedicated Lucas slabber let alone the Lucas with slabbing attachment. I am looking to go to one of their demo days to see them in action. 

One of the biggest benefits I see from the Peterson other than the faster cutting, is the ease of loading logs in. The Lucas setup requires you to go under the rail, over the rail, or remove the rail (in that order) to get larger and larger logs in. This does consume some time. 
The Peterson can also be mounted on permanent track with unlimited length (angle iron bolted to concrete) so we could make a 12m track bed which would allow for a second log to be loaded by a second operator whilst the other operator is milling the first and so forth. Ease of loading is very straight forward as there are no rails, just tracks. Cost wise this is double the Lucas. 


Large throat bandsaw:

The bandsaw probably excites me the most as a couple of years ago I purchased one with a 660mm throat to trial and I was blown away by how fast it cuts. It was a complete game changer compared to the Lucas. Unfortunately the usable throat was just too small for what we need and I have recently sold this machine. Have people got comparisons of a bandsaw versus Peterson DWS which is supposably the fastest chain slabber? I struggle to see how it could be anywhere near as fast still. 

I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum, and watching YouTube videos etc but keen to get some first hand experience or thoughts on what would be needed to make this work effectively.

At the moment I'm looking at a 1.6m or 2m wide bandsaw out of Asia, price wise its about the same as the Peterson, probably a bit more with current shipping costs. The 1.6m is a medium duty (1.5tonne, hydraulic up and down, manual feed), and the 2m wide is a really heavy duty (4.5tonne with electric feed, the whole shebang) 

The 1.6m which is what I'm looking at mainly is powered by a 27hp Diesel, I suspect this needs to be specced up to around 50hp though? The band on tis machine is approx 7100mm x 75mm x 0.9mm and the drive wheels are 700mm on this particular one. On other machines they are more like 1m diameter, does this make a material difference? 

The heavy duty 2m machine runs a 150mm (6 inch) wide band and has an 80hp motor. 

So - my real question! I slab logs from 200mm dia up to 1.5m diameter roughly, but most of the time the sweet spot is around 300-400mm for slab seats, 600-850mm for bar leaner style slabs, and table slabs from 900-1100mm. 

Is a large bandsaw capable of slabbing those 600 - 1200mm slabs consistently fast without costing an arm and a leg in bands, sharpening etc, or is a the cheaper more reliable setup sticking with the chain slabbing setups? 

Are wide bands (3" as mentioned above, or 6" for the heavy duty) worth it, or are there downsides to these too? 

I'm disregarding kerf etc for now as well, its not really much of a factor. The bandsaw does have the benefit of re-sawing and cutting thin stuff quickly and efficiently though. 
The loading benefits of the Peterson are also equal with the bandsaw, they are both very easy to load and suit a permanent setup (which it will be) very well. 

Summary:

Long story short, what is the ultimate efficiency for cutting slabs, including big ones!  

Thanks for reading this far team, would love to hear your thoughts or comments!

JC 

[longtime lurker]

I'm familiar with Lucas mills. There is a definite step up with the dedicated slabber, and they do options out to stupid wide if you have the need. I looked at it a couple times but how often do you really need to go past 1.5m wide? And that question there is really the most important question of the lot, if you're regularly up against the width limitations of your current setup then your options are limited whereas if 1.5 covers them then options abound.

Problem with all the chain slabbers is they cut at chain speeds. Bands cut faster, and time is money.

If you asked me for the ultimate slabbing machine it would be a band headsaw, complete with hydraulic carriage. Off the top of my head I know where there's two available within Australia for basically scrap money, either would handle 1.8m diameter logs, and you'd be able to buy them and land them in NZ for less than the cost of a new Lucas Mill. I'd be reasonably confident you'd find one hiding in the long grass within NZ somewhere also, just a matter of asking the right people and one will turn up. There's some cost in installing the things - lots of concrete for the foundation and it would need to be under a roof - and it's not at all portable. But if you want to slab logs quickly and cheaply it's far and away the best option, so long as you never want to shift it.

[Cornerstone]

I wish I could answer your questions. I've also been wondering what's the most efficient method to slab big logs myself. I'm in to learn as well. Very well worded by the way.

[redbeard]

We run a Hud-Son 60 since 2015 we slice up slabs too sell and cut slabs for customers logs. 
Mill has 12 volt electric up n down and forward / reverse drive.
Deck is all manual no hydraulics. Ours is 40' long and can mill 34' max.
Mill uses
1-1/2" wide  .055 thickness  267" length bandsaw blades.
Max. Width is 56"
30" band wheels (automotive belts)
28" capacity above blade.
34 HP Kubota Diesel
On a good day we can slab out 4-5  big logs usually 38" - 44" dia. 8'-12' long 
2-1/2' - 3" thick slabs and change blades 2-3 times. New blades cost a little under $50.00 each and we can get 5-6 sharpenings before they get soft.
We also use mill too break down big logs for the AC 36 Cooks mill.
I have been around several chainsaw slabber machines and there just as efficient for end results. Bandsaw is much faster. The bottle neck is setting the big trunks, logs or crotches up then  removing, flipping and stickering the slabs.
Sawing is the easy part.

[customsawyer]

I have a Lucas dedicated slabber. The best thing I did to it was adding the little boat winch to the top of it. Not only did it speed up the sawing a little but the smoothness of the cut is much improved. I have to add that the only reason I went with this one is that it came up for sale used and cheap enough that I couldn't pass it up. I wasn't even looking for a slabbing mill and ended up with one. I would think that a band mill might struggle with some of the hardwoods y'all have down there. I know you are talking about doing mostly cypress but it isn't if but when you will need to step outside of your comfort zone.

[Walnut Beast]

This is the dates for the demo in your area. Back by popular demand, we are opening the gates of the Peterson factory here in Rotorua, New Zealand.
Spread across 3 days, June 15-17, this is your opportunity to check out the world's best, most versatile range of portable sawmills and accessories all in one place!

[Walnut Beast]

I'm looking and talking about ordering the Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber. I think unless you have a bandsaw slabber like Redbeard has with diesel power of that caliber that anything less you are better off with the various dedicated chainsaw slabbers. Plus the portability is a bonus. I really like the wheels that go on the main carriage of the Peterson Units

[metalspinner]

@longtime lurker 
Is this the style saw you mentioned above??
https://youtu.be/CdWmBRpAPC4

I love watching this YouTube channel. It's riveting to me to watch these big slabs slide off these logs. 

[longtime lurker]

That would be a small band headsaw, probably about a 60" or so. Bandsaws are sized on wheel diameter so 60 inch wheels top and bottom. I'm guessing this because that looks around an 8" wide saw.

Biggest band headsaw I've seen working was a 72"... they run a 10-12" band.

Nobody really wants any of these anymore, as production saws they've been replaced by faster things.  But the sheer production output makes them too big for a little guy. No demand means they sell for scrap money.

Hull Oakes saw mill - YouTube


That's the 14" band ( I don't know the wheel size) at Hull Oakes in Oregon. I'd call that the ultimate slabber.

I want oneeee

[moodnacreek]

@longtime lurker
Is this the style saw you mentioned above??
https://youtu.be/CdWmBRpAPC4

I love watching this YouTube channel. It's riveting to me to watch these big slabs slide off these logs.

What a horrible log. The more iron the better. I would have never thought of making a pantograph like that. Thanks for posting.

[metalspinner]

Yeah, they cut some crazy stuff on this channel. And a lot of it is imported into Japan from way over here!