Mineral oil finish

[Nbpete08]

Has anyone used mineral oil for a finish on their timber frames before? It's used on butcher blocks and other wood cutting boards so I couldn't see why not.  

I'd really like a clear finish and haven't been able to find a natural finish that is truly clear. I've tried heritage and they claim it's clear but it is not quite. I have not tried sansin so any thoughts on that would be appreciated too. 

[GRadice]

Three questions first:

Are you thinking about exterior or interior or both?

Will it be rough sawn or planed/sanded smooth?

What species of wood?

[Ianab]

Non-curing oil finishes generally need to be re-applied periodically. Maybe after a few decades the wood gets so polished and "cured" that it keeps it's finish, but outdoor furniture and cutting boards that you might finish with mineral oil generally need maintenance re-applications. I suspect that after a few years it will start looking a bit tired?

Any finish is going to change the colour of the wood, just look at before and after on your cutting boards. Wood also changes colour with age / UV light etc over time. Some of the better quality finishes are UV resistant, so they change less over time. 

[Nbpete08]

Three questions first:

Are you thinking about exterior or interior or both?

Will it be rough sawn or planed/sanded smooth?

What species of wood?

1) Interior
2) planed/sanded
3) I've tried I've got a white spruce project as well as a white pine

[Nbpete08]

Non-curing oil finishes generally need to be re-applied periodically. Maybe after a few decades the wood gets so polished and "cured" that it keeps it's finish, but outdoor furniture and cutting boards that you might finish with mineral oil generally need maintenance re-applications. I suspect that after a few years it will start looking a bit tired?

Any finish is going to change the colour of the wood, just look at before and after on your cutting boards. Wood also changes colour with age / UV light etc over time. Some of the better quality finishes are UV resistant, so they change less over time.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 I'm more referring to the yellowing that many oils give you. A prime example would be a cheap linseed oil that is quite yellow. 
I would also say applying mineral oil on a butcher block gives it a wet look rather than actually change the color. Just my opinion. 
Do you have any experience with using the UV resistant additives? I considered trying that as well. 
I/my wife especially, do not like the yellow/orange tones that seem to come out with many finishes. 
I would agree, my white spruce really yellows over time while it is a beautiful clean white when fresh planed. 
Thanks! 

[Brad_bb]

I would NOT use mineral oil.  It does not harden, and could prevent you from applying any other type of finish in the future.  

The only thing I've found that gives you a more genuine appearance of the natural wood color is a water based urethane.  Most of these do not yellow.  I use General finishes High performance flat on barnwood and  planed hardwoods to maintain the natural color and the flat version makes it look more natural.  Any more gloss than that (and flat does have some sheen to it), and it will look more like plastic.   However, you cannot apply that to a timber until it is sufficiently air dried.

Speaking of yellowing, I have white pine tongue and groove decking that makes the ceiling of my timber frames.  My plan was to clear coat it, but I know that white pine and other blonde woods tend to yellow over time, I used Permachink's transparent white stain and then their clear over it.  You can't even tell it's transparent white stained but it has prevented the yellowing.  The heartwood has darkened some over time, but no yellowing.

Right when it went up.


 


A year later.  Looks very natural.  5-6 years later and still looks great.  This is also a film finish and if your timber are still green, you'd have a to wait a few years at least.

[GRadice]

I agree that mineral oil alone is not a great idea for the reasons stated and also that it tends to grab dirt and dust. 

There are certainly clear chemical finishes that don't amber over time. But they won't stop the aging of the wood below which will slowly probably turn gray. Faster where sun hits it. Slower in other places. UV inhibitors may slow that age graying a little. But I think (not sure) that the UV inhibitors that are not pigments will break down over time and need to be reapplied.

All woods change color over time. The only way to avoid that is to cover with paint or stain with dyes, as Brad showed. The pigments can be color stable and you can find dyes that are fade-resistant.

Would you consider not using any finish at all? Or use a clear finish (to make the wood easier to clean) and embrace the natural change in color as part of the beauty of using natural wood?

It might not be your esthetic but in Japanese timber frame construction the finest wood finish is considered to be a naked, hand planed surface with no paint, stain, dye, oil, or film. And those frames are most often whitish softwoods like Japanese versions of cypress and cedar and pine. Might not be what you are after but tossing it out there as an option. Of course, there is the task of hand planing all of those beams......!

[scsmith42]

I would not use mineral oil.  It's acceptable for cutting boards but IMO that's it.

I had a customer where we did a wide 8/4 black walnut glue up for an island top.  Customer chose to use mineral oil for the finish - against my recommendations.  Wood was kiln dried to 6% MC

Within a year the island top was cupped almost 1/2" in the middle.  The bottom side (which had not been retreated due to difficult access) measured 2% MC higher than the upper side (that had been retreated with mineral oil).

My recommendation would be to use tung oil.  You can add Japan Dryer to it if you want to turn it into a film finish.  It will not yellow like BLO.

[Sod saw]

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Brad, you talked, here, about Permachink finish and how it keeps pine etc from yellowing.

In a recent post (and I am asking here because I don't remember where that other post is)  you also talked about some finish that you used to lighten up some wood.

Do I remember that the other wood was flooring?

I am also installing Pine and Hemlock 2 x 6 tongue and groove ceiling in our shop and would like it to not turn dark.   Will you (have you) put the finish on before installing the boards or after the ceiling is in place?

We will be installing Maple floor in our daughter's house and would like to not have it look "stained" but would like to keep it white.

Everyones thoughts would be appreciated. 

Thanks


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[Brad_bb]

In a recent post (and I am asking here because I don't remember where that other post is)  you also talked about some finish that you used to lighten up some wood.

Do I remember that the other wood was flooring?

I am also installing Pine and Hemlock 2 x 6 tongue and groove ceiling in our shop and would like it to not turn dark.   Will you (have you) put the finish on before installing the boards or after the ceiling is in place?

The flooring was Doug fir 2x6 T&G with circle sawn texture.  I stained that with vinegar/steel wool/water, which yielded the amazing finish below.  Stain was wiped on. That was clear coated with at least 4 sprayed on coats of AquaZar, a durable water based urethane floor finish.  Used a grayco airless sprayer I bought. 
Doug fir floor
 The Permachink is great for the ceiling boards.  I prefinished them all and they were installed from the roof side to the rafters.  I would not try to finish after installation with the Permachink nor any other finish really.  Way too difficult for me. If you were installing short pieces from the inside, well I guess you'd have no choice.  I wouldn't use the Permachink product for a floor.  It's not designed for that level of wear.  It's great for ceiling and trim.  Below you can see when we did them.  You couldn't see too much of the heartwood, it looked fairly uniform.  But it only took a few weeks and it started looking better and better.  Within a few months it looked awesome.  The heartwood got darker from oxidation, but the sapwood did not yellow.  Within a couple months, you couldn't tell it was transparent white stained.
 

 

 

 

[Jim_Rogers]

Brad:
When you add text to a photo, please put it in a box with a white background so we/I can read it.
I'm having lots of trouble reading your text.
Something like this:



 

Thanks.

Jim Rogers

[Sod saw]

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Brad,  Thanks for clearing that up.  Does it make a difference as to the type (apple of white) vinegar that is used?  Was your wash left on or rinsed off before drying?

I wonder how Maple flooring would look with your vinegar recipe?  Would it stay uniformly white?



Jim,  Thanks for the comment, I have troubles with small type face and colored words on a photo make it even more difficult to read accurately.


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[Brad_bb]

The chemical reaction is different with every wood.  It works really well on Doug Fir giving you a lot of brown tones.  On oak you'll only get black or shades of gray.  I think I also tested beech and Ash with shades of gray.  Did not test maple, but probably going to still get grays.

I think it works best on pine and fir. Cheap to do a test piece though.  Put some white vinegar in a jar, cut up some 0000 steel wool.  Let it dissolve over night.  Add water to thin as needed.  Equal part as vinegar or more water if needed.

I wipe it on wet for a minute and wipe it back with clean rags and let it dry.  On fir you will see the color change in 5-10 minutes It may continue darkening for a while more.  I'd let it dry overnight before clear coating or re-staining if you really need it dark.

The words on the pics are not important.  those pics were from a few years ago when I added those words for another presentation (where they were bigger and easier to read).  I just couldn't find the originals without the words to post.

[Nbpete08]

Thanks for all the insight guys. Does anyone have any expertise with the Sansin finishes? 

Brad, you've given some great info. Thank you. My timber are green still and I sure like the idea of using something a bit more natural. I may use Urethane on my T & G though... 

[Sod saw]

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Thank you for the "cooking" lesson. Along with the original recipe in previous posts it all makes sense now.  I had not realized that the steel wool was dissolved in the vinegar.  Most of us know how metal in logs stains the wood different colors in different species of tree.

Testing a stain on sample pieces is always a good idea but nice to hear reminders none the less.  Having said that, other folks experiences can help guide me to experiment with or ignore some ideas.

Thanks again for sharing your project(s).


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[Brad_bb]

You don't need to dissolve all the steel wool, just what dissolves in a day or two.  Strain the rest out.  I just watched one video where they said it leave it dissolve for 10 days minimum, but I think I only did it for 1 or 2 days.  

I added water to thin out the strength.  I can't remember exactly how much water I added.  Maybe and equal part water to vinegar up to 2 parts water to 1 part vinegar I'm thinking.  Again. It's easy enough to make the base vinegar/steel wool and then in one jar  put one part of this and one part water. in the second jar, put one part vinegar mix and 2 parts water.

[Sod saw]

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Thanks again, Brad.      I encouraged my daughter to experiment with your various suggestions, these projects will become hers one day.


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