Planing charge

[Cedarman]

For those of you who plane your lumber, and are asked to plane S2S to 1" , how do you charge?  Does your planing charge include the cost of the wood planed off or do you charge by the board foot , say charging 5/4 price or a little less and then adding the planing charge?
I charge for the extra wood and add planing charge.
For cedar S2s 1" x 6", I charge 1" price plus planing charge x 1.125 
charge as we take off 1/16 to get a smooth surface.  Hardwoods, I would expect to take more off, but we do not plane hardwood.

[Stephen1]

  This is always a good subject to follow .

[DanielW]

When I did it, I had a planing charge per board foot of lumber into the planer, whether or not it was my lumber or lumber other customer's brought to me. So if it was my lumber, they'd pay whatever my standard price was for the rough lumber, then the planing charge per board foot. I'd thus keep the rough lumber price and planing charges completely separate.

For a while I found that planing other folks' lumber was the way to go, and it might be worth looking into yourself if you have the capability. It seemed more lucrative than planing/selling my own lumber. Everyone has a portable bandmill these days, but no one has a four-sided planer, so there was always a demand for my planing.

I got out of it, however: The lumber folks cut themselves tended to vary too much. If they had some blade wander and the thickness wavered a little the planer heads could catch and jam, or worse: send the piece rocketing back out the infeed - which was quite dangerous. I got into a real argument with a former customer one time about his band vs. my circle mills when I had to turn him away: He gave me a hard time for turning down his band-cut lumber because I said it was too inaccurate. He said that was nonsense because I was finishing lumber from my circle mills which was much rougher. I kept telling him (though the message never really sunk in) that surface finish and surface accuracy are too very different things. Lumber off my old headsaws undoubtedly has a rough, ugly surface finish, but it seldom varies more than 1/16" at the very, very most. In contrast, he was clearly pushing his bands too hard and letting them get too dull - his blade was diving all over. His lumber may have had a nice, smooth surface, but you couldn't count on the accuracy within 3/16".

Might be something to keep in mind if you're running a larger, multi-head planer.

[scsmith42]

I charge $3.00 per minute to joint/plane, wide belt sand, or resaw, with a $20 minimum.

[LeeB]

I was thinking about this just the other day. Would you charge by the Bf or SF? Perhaps better by the hour as SC does. Kind off like the dame question as about how to charge for sawing. My thought is by the hour is the more sensible way.

[barbender]

 If I was bringing product somewhere to be planed, I would want a set price per bf. If I'm bringing 1000bf, I want to know what it's going to cost.

[Ianab]

You would at least want an estimate before they started. An estimate is +/- some %, but it's close. Simply charging by bd/ft isn't always the best. You can't process 4" wide flooring blanks 6 x faster than 12x2 boards. The 4" boards are easier to handle, so it wont be 6x the cost to process them, but it's going to be more per bd/ft.

But if you have a handle on how many linear feet you can process an hour, then you can estimate the final bill. There is also the "thick-n-thin" lumber mentioned. You could process it, but it might need a skip planing run first, then a final pass. But again, you can estimate that before the job starts.

It's a bit like the milling charges. You can charge by the bd/ft for the "standard" stuff. But even then you base the bd/ft charge on your expected hourly production, vs what you need to earn per hour. If you have to do odd-ball sawing jobs, then you should flick back to hourly, because they may be easier, OR slower.

[longtime lurker]

I charge for the wood and then charge for the machining as a separate item, on a volume rate (m³ but it could be BF no matter. Volume is always calculated from the rough sawn size.

It doesn't always work out ... it's fine when the order is large but I'll get some guy wants 3 boards at this size and 2 at that size and 4 at that size and between the time to pull them from stock and the time to change the machine around it can cut into my margins quick if I'm not organised. I wouldn't say it wasn't profitable but short run anything the machine isn't making me money like it will tomorrow when I've got well over a linear mile of one size to run.

I really need to put a surcharge on to cover that - "setup fees".
And I really need to charge for double running when the finish size takes two passes to come down from rough sawn size not one.

But mostly it works and the moulder does bring more orders in the door for sure.

[customsawyer]

I charge 30 cents per bf per pass with my S2s planer. I come out okay on most folks lumber. You will get the odd order where every couple of boards are a different size and you have to charge a extra fee. I try to always tell the customers that are bringing their lumber "my price is subject to change if your lumber isn't accurate".
I charge for the bf sold and then charge for the planing. I don't know if there is a perfect way. I like Scott's charge per minute but then when do you start and stop the clock? When the customer gets there and leaves? Only when the planer is running? I know with my rates, I'm making more than 3 bucks a min. of actual planer running time.
If I'm running my 4 sided planer I charge 60 cents per bf. with extra fees if I have to pre size the material. Any customers small batches or small runs of my lumber get a set up fee.
This is like how to charge for sawing. I don't think there is one set way to do it and always win. Every now and then you are going to have a not so great deal and you try to learn from them and move forward.

[nopoint]

I will add a bit to the question. For those of you that are surfacing wood for customers what are you running for a planner?  I have lots of lumber that I feel would be more saleable if surfaced but currently don't have equipment up to the task.
Thanks

[longtime lurker]

Pretty much all wood is more saleable when planed. What you have to watch for though is that you don't lose money doing it because of the time involved that you can't be sawing in. As with saws if you're paid by the BF then size matters.

My first planer was a commercial 18" wide single sided thicknesser. Great machine (still got it). Never did a lot with it but I used to let my customers hire it and feed it themselves: charged enough for power and knives and it maybe made me the odd carton of beer.  But it did solve a problem in terms of cost effective capacity because I couldn't afford a machine fast enough to pay my way but the customer could stand there and feed it in their time not mine. Not every customer either - I was pretty cautious there about insurance and liability etc etc.

Now I run a big old Klein 4sider. It's got strengths and weaknesses but I play to it's strengths and in the near future I see a new 6 header to cover it's weaknesses which is single pass volume at a high level of finish. And a full time drymill guy to run it all because my time is limited and my business needs me doing other things.

[customsawyer]

One thing to keep in mind is that my planers are hitting at least 2 sides each pass. The only single head machine I have is my jointer.
My list of planers is at the bottom of each one of my post. This keeps me from having to type it out.  ;D

[never finished]

 Per lf per pass. I'll run a 12" board for the same money as a 4" board. If it's sawn good less passes.

[scsmith42]

I'm utilizing a 25" Oliver jointer/planer.  I recall it's around 48hp total. 

Billing time is based upon machine time and sometimes a little more if we're loading/unloading the customer.

The 6 head moulder is by the board foot.  On large columns I absorb the machine setup time, but my bd ft price includes straight line ripping (edger), stacking, banding, and shrink wrapping, and loading onto customer's trailers.  The banding, shrink wrap and loading can easily add 1 - 2 hours to several thousand board foot orders.

[fluidpowerpro]

In my neck of the woods, everyone I have ever asked about planing charged by the linear foot.

[customsawyer]

I've tried the LF pricing but when customers bring in big slabs and I have to work like a rented mule to handle them then I want compensated. On 1x4 or 1x12 S2s I can feed multiple boards at a time through the 30" Cantek. I can run 2 1x12s at a time or 4 or 5 1x4s. The hold up on them is the man trying to catch and stack.
I've considered going LF when doing S4s through the Pinhero but chose to just double my rate of 30 cents per bf. when running it. If they want anything narrower than 6" material ran then the rate goes up. Some of the planers have a ft counter on a hold down wheel. Like a hour meter it is easy for them to charge so much per LF. Zero out that wheel before the run and tally it at the end.
I don't think there is a wrong way to do it. You just have to make sure that you are profitable.

[longtime lurker]

My S2S rate is 70% of my S4S price. ( I'd talk rates but $/m³ and in $AUD it would just be a distraction)

It probably should be 85% of it. By my reckoning the only difference between the two is a negligible bit more diesel to turn the  extra two spindles and a bit more knife steel being worn away. But the support equipment, manpower, packaging and handling costs remain the same regardless, as does the wear to the feed system and bed.
Labour cost is the one: two guys need paying either way