Removing a tree leaning into another

[jhellwig]

 

 

 

So how do I go about taking this down without killing myself?  The leaning one is still intact but leaning into the fork of another oak tree 25 to 30 feet up.  The straight one snapped off and is on the ground.  I just bought this place this year and have about 8 acres of woods that are full of leaning double trunk stuff like this.  I do have a tractor and would like to not damage the tree it is leaning into as it is still good. 

Maybe a dumb question but after my last time using a chainsaw a couple of months ago it seams I have forgotten a lot about taking down trees.  Sitting in the woods hunting showed me lots of stuff that needs cleaned up out there. 

[bluthum]

If it were on my property I'd leave it alone unless there were some very compelling reasons it needed to be removed.

[Magicman]

One option would be to girdle/poison the offending tree and let it die/rot.

[SwampDonkey]

Hard to make an assessment without being there and seeing the surroundings. Also involves some good chainsaw handling experience.

[Ianab]

Maybe a dumb question but after my last time using a chainsaw a couple of months ago it seams I have forgotten a lot about taking down trees.

Nope, first thing about cutting down trees is to recognise the hazards. That mess has "DANGER" written all over it, and you have identified this. That counts as a pass before you even start your saw.

Walk away is a valid option. Girdle the leaner so it dies and rots sooner, then walk away is also an option.  If it's leaning over something important, then it's crane / arbourist work to take it down in pieces.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

First off if your not confident you can pull it off without harm, don't mess with it. But it can be taken down with out to much trouble.

With out some real equipment you'll not take the leaner down without damaging the other tree.   They will both have to come down together.   

I would go to the tree supporting first. Notch on which ever side the leaning tree and the supporting tree will fall towards. DONT notch them toward each other or away from each other. Got to be to the side they will both want to fall to. So notch the support tree. Then bore it behind the notch.  We aint worried about fiber pull here so leave a good stout hinge.  Now go to the leaner.  Notch it on the same side.  Then bore it if your able.  Leave enough on the back to keep her hanging there.   Now go back to the supporter, don't turn your back on this mess, watch and listen in case it just decides to go.  Be ready and have your escape route clear.   Now release the back cut on the supporter and walk away from the direction of fall. Did it all come down? If it did great. If it didn't just go back to the leaner and release the back cut and now it will come down and real quick.   Be gone when it does. 

But remember I do this for a living and handle situations like this often.  What looks like  straight forward manageable plan may not be that way for a guy that does this once in a while.   So like I said if this seems like a something maybe you shouldn't tackle then stay away from it.  Live to cut another day.

[jhellwig]

The leaner isn't into the other tree yet and I don't think the fork it will land in will support it.  I might just leave it alone for now.  It is in the area that my kids love to wander through.  They love being out in the woods so I want to make it better for them. 

I am going to have to get a pole saw and remove dead branches out of every oak tree on the place.  There is a ton of dead standing stuff that needs removed.

 

 

 

[Ron Wenrich]

Looks like a good den tree.  Those trees don't use any sunlight or moisture, but return a good home for wildlife.  Even when they fall over.

[KEC]

I understand your concern for your kids' safety;priority for sure. As Ron W. says, those dead standing trees that are full of holes are important for birds and critters for shelter and nest sites. I keep the trails open on my neighbors' trails as he isn't up to it any more. A few years ago a dead tree fell and lodged firmly in another in a crotch over the trail. I studied heck out of it for probably 3 or 4 years. As could be predicted, the forces of time, gravity, fungi and bacteria  finally brought it down. I promptly cut  it up and piled it up off the trail for critters to shelter under it. And I'm here to tell about it.

[Machinebuilder]

I've got a dead tree like that first picture.

Every day when the dogs take me for a walk they stop and check that tree.

Many times they chase a squirrel either to it or from it.

I have dropped a couple dead trees. you can not be too careful,
I had one that truly scared me when it fell the opposite direction i was trying. the outside had much more puncky wood on the outside than I realized

[thecfarm]

I've cut leaning trees on my land.
They do what they want!!! 
I've also cut a lot of dead trees here too.

[Ron Wenrich]

Wear a hard hat when cutting dead trees.  I remember an experienced logger getting killed cutting dead oak.

[jhellwig]

I don't care for dead standing trees.  Almost smashed myself when I was younger pushing one over with a tractor.  Forked top came down on me with me in between the fork.  Only came out of it with a severely swollen hand where the limb smashed down on top of it while on the three point lever.  My dad watched me do it and I will never forget the look on his face as it came down on me.

I do think I am going to try to take the leaner down.  I will bring home a come along and straps to make it move controlled. 

[barbender]

 Another danger when you get the equipment out, is that you start pulling on those trees that are hung together and end up pulling the top loose on the second tree. There's lots of different ways to get killed messing with these.

[rusticretreater]

My neighbor has a skytrac that we use to make things a lot safer.  Thing can lift 4,000 pounds.  We push trees, put slings around them to support trees while cutting and anything else we can think up.  You can rent them for $400-500 a day.  Make a plan, get one and take out 4-5 problem trees in one day.

Cutting dead trees can be dangerous as they can snap while cutting or falling.  Think of a marble column made of pieces when it falls.  Things go different directions.  With a skytrac, you can push higher up and see if the tree breaks or maybe even just push it over.

I had one leaner hung up in another tree.  We lifted the leaner a bit, cut the supporting tree and then set the leaner on the ground.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Wear a hard hat when cutting dead trees.  I remember an experienced logger getting killed cutting dead oak.

Ditto, I remember a story like that from when I was a kid, guy was very experienced and safety minded. Working the weekend for beer money, a branch fell and knocked him on the back of the head, stone cold dead on the spot and insurance didn't pay a dime since he was moonlighting. Sad. Left a Wife and 2 kids...

I second the arguments for girdling and/or dropping the supporting tree first. Tie a long rope up in it first, then work the bottom as much as you feel safe. If you can get a tractor/truck on the rope to pull it over you should be good once the base is compromised.

[beenthere]

Wear a hard hat when cutting dead trees.  I remember an experienced logger getting killed cutting dead oak.

Ditto, I remember a story like that from when I was a kid, guy was very experienced and safety minded. Working the weekend for beer money, a branch fell and knocked him on the back of the head, stone cold dead on the spot and insurance didn't pay a dime since he was moonlighting. Sad. Left a Wife and 2 kids...

I have a good young man I was going to use for day-labor as-needed, said he'd come along for $200/day under-the-table.

Tell that story to this "good young man" you might let moonlight for you.

[John Mc]

Others have said similar things already, but I'll make 2 comments:

after my last time using a chainsaw a couple of months ago it seams I have forgotten a lot about taking down trees.

If that is the case, the sort of trees you pictured and described are NOT the place to brush up your skills. Those are the sorts of things to tackle AFTER you have developed or refreshed your skills.

Sitting in the woods hunting showed me lots of stuff that needs cleaned up out there.
...
There is a ton of dead standing stuff that needs removed.

The woods doesn't "need" you to remove the dead stuff. You may want to remove it, and for very good reasons. (I can't think of a better one than keeping the kids safe.) However, as others have mentioned, that is great wildlife habitat. in addition to making good den trees, in general wildlife likes it messy. Please give some consideration to where you can safely leave standing dead trees, and leave some woody debris of various sizes on the ground.

[Old Greenhorn]

John's right. These are trees any full time cutter would be extremely careful with and in some cases walk away until they have some iron in there to back them up and reduce the hazard a great deal. Taking trees like that when you are not at the top of your game is well beyond dangerous. The problem with girdling (if there is one) is that you still don't know exactly WHEN they will come down, just that they will come down sooner. I am not sure how that helps. I prefer to take trees with as much healthy wood as possible, or at least as little rot as possible. Girling and killing them reduces this a bit and if you still wind up cutting, you have an even more hazardous tree.

With respect to making the woods safe for the kids, there is a limit to what you can do on that score. To be a bit absurd just to make a point, are you going to remove all the rocks so they can't trip? So there are things anyone who walks in the woods needs to be aware of and training kids is doing them a service. Teach them how to look around AND UP and be aware of what is going on, or could be going on. It's similar to teaching wildlife observation skills, looking for sign, tracks and other evidence. Looking for hazards is part of life in the woods, and what you have there are great examples for kids to learn from, they can easily grasp it. Certainly, it's a conversation you should have, regardless of age group. 

[Freedy201]

It's hard for us on the forum to give you advice from photos. If you're not confident you can remove the tree yourself, you should just leave it or call professionals to take a look at it. I've worked with a chainsaw since I was a teenager, but when I'm not 100% sure I can take down a tree, I call professionals to do it.
Just a few weeks ago, I had a huge tree brought down by this tree removal company at my house in Oahu. It was leaning more and more towards the house, and I decided not to wait any longer because I don't always stay at that house to monitor it.

[Klunker]

I've cut a few trees that lean like the one leaning to the right in OP's first picture.
Tho none have been involved in another tree.
Almost all have been Shagbark Hickory blown that way after a tornado, about 12" in dia or samller.
I attach a sling as high up the tree as I can, usually about 15-20 ft and pull it with a come along perpendicular to the lean.
I cut a small notch again, perpendicular to the lean.
As I cut the tree I alternately cut a very small amount and load the come along.
The idea is to pull the tree over sideways to the lean with the come along while the hinge is as thick as possible.
Cutting the notch on the side that the lean goes is suicide in a tree like Hickory that barber chairs easily.

This is not the smartest thing I've done I'll grant that.

[beenthere]

Klunker
Good luck.
Any pics as you go along?  Or are these all history now and you survived using this technique?

[TreefarmerNN]

I agree with all the cautions about safety.  I hate taking down dead trees but sometimes it's necessary.  (I took one down today but still didn't enjoy it.) 

If you are going to be doing much of this, do yourself a favor and get a long cable with a working load more than your tractor will pull.  Get a snatch block and some choker chains.  Leaning trees have several dangers including: potential barber chair split, tree falling and hitting other trees on the way down thereby throwing debris as the second tree acts like a catapult, leaning tree hitting another tree and sliding unpredictably, etc.

Depending on the size of the tree, the lean and what ground is available to land the tree I might simply cut it knowing that a barber chair is possible.  If it's a larger tree, I might cut the front notch and then do a bore cut releasing the trigger on the way out.  (Practice your chainsaw skills before attempting that one as it's easy to mess up and either stick the saw or get yourself hurt. 

If the tree is going to fall into another tree and crash through, I might try to let it ease down.  That's possible with some species but not others.  If it's going to fall into another tree and stick, the cable and snatch block becomes important.  Make your felling cuts so the bole jumps off the stump to the side.  Attach the cable to the butt end and pull the tree out of the standing tree.  Stuff WILL fly out of the top so a long cable is good, a longer cable is better.  If your tractor won't pull the log, use the snatch block and anchor the free end of the cable to another tree, through the snatch block and back to your tractor.  (A longer cable is really necessary for this.)

The scenarios are endless, hence the comments above that it's hard to give advice from pix.  I look at a dead tree or leaner a long time before cutting it just to make sure I have a good plan.  Then sometimes the first cut reveals something unexpected and plan B or C is necessary.  And no, I'm not a pro at this and sometimes call on someone who felled timber every day for almost 50 years.  Even he gets fooled sometimes.  The idea is that things won't always go as planned but make sure everyone is safe no matter what happens.

[John Mc]

Now that more than 7 months has passed since the original post in this thread, I wonder if @jhellwig will fill us in on what he ended up doing here.

[vratarneli7]

Hard to make an assessment without being there and seeing the surroundings.  Also involves some good chainsaw handling experience.

Absolutely