adze

[thedeeredude]

I'm asking this here because I figure most of you guys use adzes.  I got a new handle on mine and sharpened it up and tried it out.  It didn't do much wood removing.  I'm thinking the bevel angle is to steep, what is the normal for an adze?  Thanks.

[hayton1960]

Hello deerdude

Is the back side of your adze smooth and shiny right up to the actual edge? Is it ground with a bevel on one side only (ie the top side in the manner of a side axe) or has it been ground on both sides like a regular chopping axe? Its the old trade off between a durable (steep) edge and sharp (shallow) edge ;) Is the edge sharp at its present angle? Mine are at about 27 deg (I guess), but I've never found the actual angle to be terribly critical. When I had trouble, twas because it wasnt sharp enough, and I had some pits/dings/small chips etc along the back face. It worked much better when I flatted the back with careful filing, emery, waterstone etc, till it was like a mirror. My edges are slightly curved, they dont seem to dig in so readily on the corners. Also I had to experiment with the angle of attack of edge to wood. Also I got better results when I stopped trying too hard and let the tool relax. ;)
I saw a bloke on telly last night using an adze ( I think it was one of those with little upturned wings at either end of the cutting edge) to square posts and rails for a traditional cleft oak fence. He had the log on the ground, and swung down and in from the left at about 30 deg to the line of the log, then from the right, then again from the left, right etc, working his way up about 4 inches each strike. Amazing skill. I expect he could have gone on like that for hours.
Keep trying, you'll get there, rome wasnt built in a day!
Cheers Jonathan

[JoeyLowe]

How much wood are you trying to remove with your adze?  We usually rely on our axe to remove th bulk of the wood and then we turn to the adze to begin shaping our curves.  Lastly, we pull out our spokeshave to smooth the cut.

[thedeeredude]

Well, the top isn't perfectly smooth but I'd say the bevel angle is 40-50 degrees.  I never used an adze before so I didn't know what it should be,b ut I do hand tool woodworking so I figured it was too high.  I'll try grinding it down to maybe 30 degrees and see what happens. I'm not trying to remove much wood at all.  What would really help is being able to see someone use on inperson, but they took Roy Underhill off TV.  Thanks

[hayton1960]

Thats what surprised me seeing the bloke on telly the other night. He was really letting it fly! He started his swing from above his shoulders; and just had deadly acuracy and confidence. (I dont think he was wearing steelies either!)
smiley_chop
Before that I'd only seen adzes used more gentley for smoothing planing cuts, with a more close controlled action closer to the workers body, smaller swinging strokes like a pedulum effect, same as with doing solid chair seats. I have a small adze that you use one handed. (Henry Taylor) as well as bigger 2 handed ones. Even the small one will do air dry French elm. I learnt from a native american  who said about getting a good rythm where you dont waste energy. New tools take time to learn-I'm still not very confident with a power saw, and as for nail guns and routers :
What adze have you got? was it a new one or from an old sale? Persevere, because the adzed finish will look great, even when the timbers have been there 6 or 7 hundred years! :D

[thedeeredude]

hayton,
  It is an old adze, a hand forged one with a welded steel edge.  I sure don't trust swinging an adze like that, I wouldn't swing an axe like that,  It would make for some bloody shins. :

[Don P]

My neighbor recently needed to adze an additions worth of beams. We tuned mine up, I have no idea of the angle, fairly shallow. I did have to back it flat to remove old scratches, no bevel on that side, just re-establishing the surface.
We practiced until we could really make a nice finish and did a few beams in what we considered to be a good workmanlike finish. He took them out to the job and said he needed to draw back and wail at the wood to match the job the previous guy had done. They wanted rustic, beauty is in the eye  .

To "find" the arc I swing in, I sneak up on it. Swinging and striking just behind the edge and slowly dropping the edge with each swing till it cuts and then establishing the arc of my stroke and applying more elbow grease. You've got to read the grain better with hand tools. The 45 degree shear can remove alot of material without tearout. The lipped adze Hayton was talking about help with heavy stock removal too.

I met an old tiehack and he ended up showing me an adze scar from when he was younger. That thing can make a big a mess  . 

[thedeeredude]

I ground the bevel down and sharpened it somewhat.  I have a heck of a time on oak and locust, though.  Once I have my pine log whittled down I'll try it on that.  Thanks

[hayton1960]

Hello again Deerdude
I rememnber seeing an old photo of a bloke scooping chair seats, he was holding the board down with his feet-he was wearing flimsy little canvas shoes : :D. Another time I goes into a wood yard in Southern France, theres this bloke using a huge chainsaw- wearing the same sort of canvas shoe, no chaps or shin guards or nothing :D They had some superb elm wood though!
Is the timber your adzeing green or dry? I find going oblique as Don suggests to be esxcellent; not exactly parallel to the grain, not at 90 degrees to it either with a slicing planing cut. That edge has to be razor sharp though. Keep trying. Remember how crappy your first ever mortice looked? Or your first attempt at cutting to the line?? :D
Cheers, Jonathan

[mark davidson]

I'd agree with hayton on the bevel angle... between 25 and 30 is good. As far as shape goes my adze has a convex back and a hollow gound bevel.
I use the adze a lot for joinery, I have a short handle(under 24") and use it for tenon shoulders, housings, sizing down beams into posts and posts into beams, also for cutting curves in braces or joists.... the adze in good hands can keep up with power tools.
I've never used the adze as a finishing tool, though, preferring the broadaxe. I would think for finishing a wider and somewhat heavier adze head would be best, with a flatter back, but would still need some convex shape to work properly.

[hayton1960]

Hi Mark, thanks for your reply

Do you finish off with a rebate plane or smoothing plane on tenons/housings etc or are you happy to leave the tooled finish?
What amazes me is how people look at you funny when you say that an axe (or adze) is as much a slicing as a chopping tool. I love to cut chamfers with an axe, holding the blade just as I would a hand saw either side of the blade and planing along. The weight of the blade does most of the work.

PS Don P-what is a tiehack ??? Is it to do with railroad ties??
Cheers Jonathan

[Don P]

Jonathan,

I met that gentleman at the Wisconsin River Logjam in 1992 or 3  :-\. They had the usual shows and demonstrations and then off towards one end was this old fellow under a shade tree slowly steadily hewing out a tie with a felling and broadaxe. We got to talking and he had done alot of hewing in his time, had built a number of log cabins and came out to visit the log cabin we were working on the next week. I was working on a travelling crew of 5 at the time and he hung out by the fire after work and we thoroughly enjoyed his visit. At some point in the conversation he showed us his adze whack. He was a true old woodsman and a joy to listen to.

This is a good description of what a tiehack did,

http://www.mdc.mo.gov/conmag/1996/10/40.html

[hayton1960]

Very interesting to read that Don. I can almost hear them old (piedmont) "tiehack blues" smiley_hillbilly_tub_base smile_banjoman smiley_fiddler
I bet someone still made money from the reject ones somehow, kept em back, didnt pay, then still put them in to the consignment and got paid themself. Maybe not.

Have you seen the old railroad photos that Lucius Beebe made years ago, where theres the pioneer logging camps and such, or the ship masts on pairs of bogies swinging out into fresh air on curved log bridges? My Dad once had an entire book of those photos.

Anyione else play the gitter on here?
Cheers, Jonathan

[mark davidson]

after the adze comes the chisel, then a square blade with a bit of crayon rubbed onto the edge.... to show the high spots...
and hey, I also play the guitar, and the saxophone