Cruise'n software

[awol]

Does anyone know of any computer programs that are geared toward foresty?  I am mainly looking for a program that when i'm crusing the woods I can take notes on specific trees etc etc.....

Thanks
awol

[Tillaway]

The ones I have used are.

MBG Tools, from Mason, Bruce and Girard Inc. Portland Oregon
Spendy and not real intuitive nor good documentation (yet), almost requires the use of handheld data recorder but a data entry form for the computer data base is available.  Designed for Western Softwoods but can be set up for any species you cruise.  This is a very good inventory program with harvest scheduling and integrates well with ARCView GIS.

Super A.C.E. from Atterbury Consultants. Portland or maybe Beaverton, Oregon
The most accepted program for western timber cruising, most mills use this program or a variation of for procurement.  It can also be customized to the species and local area you are in.  This is an easier program to use than MBG Tools but is limited in the inventory capabilities and report generation.  Accepts both hand held data recorder or manual entry of cruise data.  Lower cost than MBG Tools.  I believe it will interface with some GIS programs but not sure.

USFS NatCruise is free for the taking on the internet.  But you get what you pay for.  Hard to use and understand, but if you figure it out it will work pretty well.
 

[woodman]

Try one called Simply Computing, Inc. thers will do log scaling lumber inventory and a lot more.

[johnjbc]

Was thinking about using a barcode scanner to inventory the trees on my ground. The biggest problem would be finding a barcode tag that would hold up to the elements and varmints in the woods.  Also would need some way to attach it maybe an aluminum or plastic nail that wouldn't destroy saw blades.  
If the barcode scanner had a GPS built in you could write a program to figure out site loading. My hand held GPS is normally accurate to with in about 15 feet . So if your sample area was at least 150 feet GPS accuracy should be statically insignificant .
Has anyone ever seen anything like this done?  :P
John

[Tillaway]

Johnjbc
Permanent inventories plots are usually done using fixed area plots.  The barcode is a nice idea, but I wouldn't want to inventory every tree as I think you are saying.  There are GPS units that will scan barcodes but they will not run any cruising or inventory software or more precisely one model can run the software but then the GPS will not work.  By the way, the cost is $5000 or so not counting the inventory software which would be another $5000 minimum.

Also barcodes even if they are on plastic will not hold up well enough to the elements and critters love to chew on tree tags.  The permanent plots I have done all use aluminum number tags and nails.  The tags are nailed below stump height facing toward plot center.  A DBH nail is driven into the tree to maintain a consistent measuring point for each time you inventory.

Look in the knowledge base for how to do an inventory.  One of the Ron's has a good primer there.

[Ron Wenrich]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want so much detail on any particular tree?  If they are quite unique, I can understand it.  But, normal forest areas don't warrant that kind of attention.

If you need something to take data for a particular tree, then you could write it down.  Pocket notebook and pencil is under a few bucks.  They are very durable, never crash, and it is hard to accidentally erase your data.   :D

[johnjbc]

When it is time to do a thinning cut everything I have read says to take the slow growing trees first. I was thinking of using the scanner as a data capture device. You walk up to a tree scan the barcode and enter DBH, species, condition, etc and on to the next tree.  
When you get home you upload the data into a SQL data base  
This would allow you to write a simple SQL query to come up with things like :
How many silver maples do I have?
Find a hickory with skider damage so I can fill an order.
What is the value of the timber on the 10 acres south of the stream.
Give me a printout of every tree within 105 feet (1 acere) of any spot on my property
How much did this tree grow last year?

Tillaway  is the $5000 scanner you are talking about survey grade equipment. From some of your other post I think this is the case. I was thinking of using a cheap inventory scanner possibly hooked to a PDA with a GPS card. The cost of something like this would be in the hundreds.  Looks to me like the biggest problem would be the barcode tags  ???

I can see why a forester wouldn't want to spend the time (money) inventorying every tree but as a land owner I think it would be nice to have that kind of data.

John

[Tillaway]

John,
There are off the shelf programs that can do what you are talking about.  MBG Tools for instance is a program that uses MS Access for it's data base.  This program also integrates with ARCView so you are GIS capable.  You need allot of acres to justify the purchase and to be able to use all the features.  

To measure and map each tree is huge job, far too inefficient and costly to really implement.  An example would be that you have 120 TPA, and say, optomistically, that it would take 5 minutes to measure and map each tree.  That would mean that it would take 10 hours to inventory one acre. (more likely double that).

It would be nearly as accurate to stratify your timberlands then take representative sample plots in each stand.  You could assign component codes to individual trees to represent attributes such as crown position, damage, leave/ take, wildlife usage and anything else you can think of.  For the kind of inventories that I do the usual data collected is, Species, DBH, Component code/s, form class or factor, total hieght, log height, crown ratio, 5 year growth and sometimes 10 as well, grade and defect by log.  Age is also a subsample of a few trees in each stand to determine site index.  We can also do down woody debris for fuel loading and collect wildlife information (wood rats nests) and vegetative cover (shrubs, grasses and forbs).

The program I mention can take this data and grow the stand as well as schedule harvesting, gross and net volumes by species and DBH class, average log size and pieces per acre, value per acre, value gained per acre per year, and about any combination of information you can imagine.  When combined with the GIS software it you can create a harvest unit that may incorporate more than one stand and get a volume for the unit as well as how much is coming out of each stand in the unit even if you are only cutting small parts of any one stand.

The GPS unit I am talking about is post proccessed to 1 to 3 meter accurracy.  Submeter capable units are about double that price, survey grade are about double that.  The comsumer / recreation models you are talking about are no more accurate than than the old fashion way of maps and photos.  In fact the old fashioned way is usually more reliable and accurate. $200 buys you 10 or 15 meter accuracy without the ability to determine if the machine is lying to you. $5000 buys 1 to 3 meter and position filters with post processing software.  $10,000 buys realtime submeter with capabilties to phase correct to a few centimeters. $20,000 buys centimeter survey grade.

You can inventory yourself, but it sounds like you might want a pretty detailed inventory.  If you value your time you may be money ahead to contract the initial inventory out, then update it yourself.  The initial inventory will get you off on the right foot, the data you collect in say 5 years will update an already existing inventory.  Much cheaper.