how u all got started

trees132 · January 25, 2003, 04:19:29 PM

hey

im new to the site and i think it is really great, learning alot. Anyways im currently a high school student and am really interested in a forestry major. I was just wondering where you guys began ur careers. anything u can tell me would be great. Thanks for ur time.

Tillaway · January 25, 2003, 10:37:40 PM

I was 17 and started working for the USFS right out of High School.

Think long and hard before you plunk down any money on college. Most of the recent Forestry graduates out here wind up doing something else. The jobs are hard to get and the pay is low when compared to other careers. An example is that a recent grad I know started a forestry career, his starting pay was about $24,000 a year if he could avoid layoffs. His best friend studied computer science at the same school and started with Sun Micro Systems at $50,000. His friends first year at Sun would have been nothing but going to class to learn more, and he was getting paid. After that he got a significant pay increase.

That Forestry grad is now a stock broker at E-Trade. Most Foresters in my area are struggling to make a living. I had lunch with a colleage last week. He is appraising houses now. He has been a Forester for 20+ years. This is not uncommon here, of course you can't throw a rock around here without a Forester anyway.

Ron Wenrich · January 26, 2003, 04:38:57 AM

You have to figure out what part of the business you want to get into. There's a wide diversity of jobs, and differing skill levels.

If you want to work at logging, then you can start at setting chokers. Those jobs are scarce on the east coast, since most guys are running grapples.

If you're interested in cutting trees, a degree from a 2 year college wouldn't hurt.

If you're interested in just cruising timber, a 2 year forest technician degree is about right.

If you want all the bells and whistles of being a forester, then a 4 year degree from an accredited college is in order. You will be doing less woods work, more computer time, and more people contact than a technician.

If you want to work at the mill level, go to work at a mill and work your way up through the ranks. Most sawyers have started as a board stacker. You can also take a 6 month course in lumber grading for hardwoods. Not sure on the softwood grading stuff.

Summertime work should be at the mill level. You learn more about growing trees by seeing what sort of products get sawn out of the trees.

But, as mentioned, there aren't too many high paying jobs. You can make a comfortable living and live in areas less crowded, which brings your cost of living down. Keen competition for what jobs that are out there keeps the wages low.

trees132 · January 26, 2003, 07:07:12 AM

hey

thanks alot guys, im pretty sure forestry is something im really interested in. I work for a local landscaper now and have done a few tree jobs also. I understand the pay isnt the greatest but id rather enjoy what im doing.
Im considering a few colleges that offer a 4 year program. And i hope to get some more experience in the next few years. Well thanks for ur responses.

Bro. Noble · January 26, 2003, 07:17:01 AM

Welcome to the forum,

I don't know that much about the forestry business as an occupation, but I have learned a lot about jobs and life.

Try to determine what you really want to do as early as possible-----this might mean working summers in a sawmill, for some kind of government forestry related temporary job ( park service, conservation service, forest service for example) a tree service in town might be a possibility or even cutting firewood.

Once you decide what you want to do, get the training or education required to do that work. If you like doing something well enough you will be able to get by but knowing all the facts about the occupation and being realistic about it won't hurt. Don't go into somthing just for the money-----life is too short.

When I was in highschool all I thought about was GUNS. I loved gunsmithing , gun trading, shooting, hunting, going to gun shows, and reading about guns. I liked girls some too ;).
My freshman year in college, I decided to quit and go to gunsmithing school. I had hitch-hiked the 350 miles home and informed my folks. I figured I was in for a real confrontation. Dad basically gave me the above speech and said get in the car, we have got to go get your stuff or take you back whichever you decide. He added that sometimes something you really are interested in makes a wonderful hobby but a poor occupation. I stayed in college and still like guns.

Noble

Minnesota_boy · January 26, 2003, 09:06:57 AM

Go to a four year college and take a variety of courses that can be applied toward your forestry degree, but don't exclude all that don't. You may find that there are other areas you are interested in as well and would rather do. Don't lock yourself into a single occupation until you are sure that is the one you want, and this may take 2 or thre years at college to discover.

dail_h · January 26, 2003, 09:12:25 AM

HEY TREES 132 WELCOME
I got started in 1968 at age 16,an old guy who used to take me fishing had an old Moffit ground mill.I got a technicians degree,but all they wanted to teach us was how to cruise and survey,and clearcut for paoer companys.Spent most of my life working for small independent co.s,hard work,not much money but boy I learned a lot.Now work for G.P. second shift planer mill,and hate every second of it.Can't wait for my mill venture to pay enough to quit. Good advice in former post:no matter how much you like something,you still have to make a living.

Ron Wenrich · January 26, 2003, 11:01:25 AM

There is another aspect that I forgot about. You could use forestry as a minor, or take forestry and have another line as a minor.

We had one guy in my class that took forestry as a major and journalism as a minor. He got offered a pretty good job with Wesvaco in public relations. One of the few that got job offers in a depressed market.

Don't look at the mainstream majors. There are a lot of ones that industry would snap up. Business and forestry makes a good combination as does engineering and forestry. I nearly had a minor in economics. But, that didn't do me much good.

bull · January 26, 2003, 11:07:52 AM

Need more input ---- you worked for a landscaper and like to cut trees ? Do you want to be a logger? Do you like trees for esthetic reasons, lumber value or what !!! Do you want to run a mill etc..... this will be good info to start with.... you need to work to make money so a related job is a good start !!

trees132 · January 26, 2003, 11:41:27 AM

hey

Thanks alot again. You guys are great i never expected so much reposnes. Well i think id be interested in the management of forests and the conservation aspect of the feild. I do enjoy cutting wood. Recently bought myself a 025 and have been using it often. Around here unfortuantly there are not any local mills. I have thought about volunteer work at local state forests though. I have been involved with boy scouts for awhile and have learned quite a few outdoor skills. Thanks again u all have been really helpful.

DanG · January 26, 2003, 03:22:31 PM

Hey, Trees132! Welcome in. One of the best things you can do for yourself, right now, is to stick around here. Read everything that is posted, as threads tend to get "off subject" :

just a bit, and good info gets hidden in unlikely places. There are some bonafied experts here, in all areas of the wood industry, and they will lay some wisdom on you in a skinny minute.
Another thing you can do, right now, is to cut and sell firewood. There is a big demand for it, 'most everywhere, and a young fella, such as yerself, can pick up some good bucks bringin' it in. Ya need ta trade that Mustang convertible in on a li'l pickemup, though. ;D
When you're out there cutting this firewood, you can be learning all kinds of things about wood. Watch how different kinds of wood reacts to the saw, and to pressures of different kinds. Observe the grain in the wood you split, as it can give up loads of info as to the characteristics of different woods. You'll also learn to ID different woods, doing this.
I always tell the young folks, these days, to get into something that you can develop into your own business, some day, if you want to. It really sux to be in something that is restricted to the big boys, with no way to get out on your own. Remember, "If you ain't the lead dog, the view don't never change." :-/

trees132 · January 26, 2003, 04:35:19 PM

thanks for all the suggestions, never thought of the firewood selling sounds like a great idea. No mustang convertible here, got my eye on a nice older silverado. One of those ez dumpers would be nice, alittle ove the budget tho.
Hope to get a bigger saw sometime soon also. I do like the 025 alot though. wishing for a 046. Well anyways thanks alot for the replys. Much apperciated. Have a good day.

carhartted · January 26, 2003, 08:34:55 PM

What ever you do HAVE A PLAN. I'm a fifth year senior and still won't have my degree by the end of this semester. I ended up taking alot of classes that I didn't need because I thought I knew it all and didn't need any help. Well now I have to take three extra semester at school to finish up. And with tuition at $2,200 a semester plus living expenses it was a pricy mistake. Ad in the cost of the potential wages of the last year and the cost compounds.

What schools are you loking at? I go to the University of Alaska Fairbanks, it's a state school so the tution is fairly low. They do have a Forestry program here.

There is not to many Forestry jobs in my area though. I am a diesel mechanic and worked with a guy who got his forestry degree from UAF and he was making more money being a Fuel luber than a Forester.

Frank_Pender · January 26, 2003, 09:41:27 PM

Well, 132, it all began when I was born. My father had owned and operated a number or larger type portable mills and A large Pine mill in Kinzue, Oregon in the mid forties. In the late 40's he opened and retail/whole yard East of Portland about 8 miles. there I learned the ins and out of that part of the business as the ripe ages of 6 to 18. As a young whipper-snapper I got to go to all the mills he purchased lumber from and road with the "gittney" drivers whenever possible. My father purchased the total output of 23 mills at one time and shipped a trainload a month to the Midwest in the early 50s. From about 12 to 24 I wanted to be a cowboy and so I bought and sold cattle for twelves years. Discovering that wrangling cattle for a living was not all it purprted to be in the "Red River Valley', I opeted to get a college education and mix to two. I discovered that herding Junior High kids was easier than chasing cattle and mending fences as well as re=building neighbors flower gardens. I did that and logged in the Summers. Got a Masters Degree and married a gal with a timber farm. I retired from teaching 3 years ago and began the sawmilling some 12 years ago. Yep, it wasall worth the effort, evne the marrying part.
Develop a plan, research the plan, make adjustments as you go, keep your original goals and objectives in perspective and be flexable. :P

bull · January 27, 2003, 05:14:54 AM

123 you say you don't have a mill in your area ???? time to get your feet wet..... start small say " woodmizer" LT 15"
lease it for short money.... I was making over $20,000 a year parttime with mine before i got the big girl LT40SUHD36 .....

How I got started..... 11 yoa bought two registered guernseys and started dairy farming.... Went to saw mill every week to get sawdust "looked cool" kept on farming through highschool
FFA- etc.... 17 yoa broke my back sold the cows "had 52 animals" beef and dairy" 18 in milk..... got to be good friends w/ the owner of the sawmill through the years... 18yoa went to work for one of those millionare farms stuck it out for 2 months tax shelter farms SUCK !!!!! My friend the sawmill owner also had a dairy farm and he gave me a job. worked at the farm and when needed helped out at the mill.... oh no got the dust in my blood...... 2 months in fire at the mill, new girl friend, etc lifes changing... went on to drive truck local overnights 12 hour runs. that lasted for a year and a half then i scored a job w/ the school dept in town " custodian" pay was great and the hours worked great. started helping a buddy with a portable mill mornings in 1988---- got the orange in the blood... oh ya Dad was the Police chief and needed dispatchers in 1986 at that time I had to join the family buisness... parttime dispatcher/police officer 1989 took fulltime police job as a campus police officer "got to go to COLLEGE" what a joy !!!!! 1998 started getting hardening of the arteries (sawdust in the blood) Got out the check book and bought the WM LT 15 withing a week of delivery I had 20,000 bfd of custom work in front of me and the money started in. 2000 35 yoa, sick of the college world spoke w/ the boss (WIFE).. and went fulltime in the sawmill buisness
bought the WM LT 40suhd etc..... and we were off grossed
$85,000 in the first year of fulltime.... have had a few bumps and slow downs but... we are still making sawdust. I have two employees and we are doing great......... so thats the start of the story. Destination OLD FART 8) 8) 8) 8)

Phil · January 27, 2003, 07:26:14 AM

Hello, trees132, and welcome to the Forum.

Here's one more possible career path: get your B.S. in Forestry, and find a "regular" job after college. Stay with it long enough to pay off student loans, study the local timber markets, etc. Then, be a part-time (or full-time, if there's enough demand in your area) consulting forester.

Use this income to supplement another business, like milling, farming, landscaping or whatever.

That's kind of the direction I've taken, although I didn't really plan it that way.

Phil

dewwood · January 27, 2003, 07:29:40 AM

Bull,
Set your goals and work to achieve them, I personally would prefer "Classy Old Fart". I guess I am halfway there, I've got the Old part pretty well covered.

Dewey

Skully · January 27, 2003, 01:32:32 PM

I found a lady with 100 Black walnut trees and told her I would remove them for 200 bucks a piece if she let me keep the wood. I told her they were "hazard" Trees.

Havent Looked Back,

Now I am retired.

Kidding ;D

Ron Wenrich · January 27, 2003, 02:54:26 PM

I see by your profile, you're from Massachusetts. There are a few mills in the area, and some larger mills to your north. For example, Cowls Lumber is in North Amherst, MA. Allard Lumber is in Brattleboro, VT.

To get a list of sawmills in your state, get ahold of your local state forester. He should be able to provide you with a listing of all the sawmills in your state. They may also be able to do the same for loggers. All the states should have a mill list.

There are also a couple of good consultants up your way. They may be able to provide you with some areas that need some timber stand improvement (TSI) or have some stands marked for firewood removal. With a TSI job, the landowner pays (with federal subsidy) to have undesirable trees thinned from the stand. I did one of these jobs when I first got started in the woods. Now, I believe you can also take the firewood.

There's plenty of opportunity in your area. You just have to find it.

DanG · January 27, 2003, 04:06:35 PM

Trees132, there is one more thing you can do for yourself, and you MUST do it up front. What I'm talking about is, learning to do all this stuff safely. You can begin by studying this forum, especially the "Health & Safety" section, and the "Chainsaws" section. There is a world of wisdom being shared on here, and it is FREE. Almost every aspect of this business entails doing something that is inherently dangerous. Operating chainsaws, felling trees, operating heavy equipment, and standing next to a huge, powerful blade that moves very fast, are a few things that come to mind. The most dangerous activities involve getting out of the trouble you already got into. Please study everything you can get your hands on, that relates to this. Most of it contains knowledge that helps you get the job done, as well as getting it done safely.
Back in 1967, Uncle Sam's Army endeavored to make a helicopter pilot out of me. Against all odds, they did it! I came away from that experience knowing that all the safety rules that were drummed into my hard head, saved my life, and others, many times over. A few sayings that I gleaned from those days are:
"There are old pilots, and bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." The same can be said of loggers.
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long if you try to make all of them yourself."
"Gravity isn't always fair, but it is the LAW!"

If you learn these lessons well, you get to be an "Old Fart" like us. You may even have enough fingers left to post on the ForestryForum. ;D

trees132 · January 27, 2003, 06:02:29 PM

hey

I cant thank you all enough, u all have been extremely helpful,alot more helpful then anyone else i have talked to about my carreer plans. I have been looking at UMASS and Unity college, Unity Maine. I would really like to go to alaska , went there 2 years ago cant wait to go back, itd be hard with family and stuff though. ANother thing i forget to mention is the possiblity of getting into forest fire fighting, I do realize it is a somewhat seasonal job. Well thanks for all ur input. Best site on the web...

bull · January 28, 2003, 06:06:10 AM

123 -- I missed the part about you being from Massachusetts
Well guess what. ME TOO!!!!! Get in the old Chevy and start on over to Sterling....... I have my BSA in just about everything
and can fill your mind with what i think i know,then you can sort it out and through away the stinky stuff... :D May also be looking for an apprentice...... We have 130 acres of mixed hwd/swd managed timber, sawmill,composting+ bark mulch operation and more.. we also have two bait ponds...... waiting to hear from you......

swampwhiteoak · January 28, 2003, 07:02:35 AM

Trees123,

If I had my college summers to do over again I'd go out west and be on a wildfire crew. The Forest Service has some great apprenticeship programs for people working on a forestry or related degree.

If you do decide to go into forestry make sure that you stay in the top of your class and get all the extras (internships, summer jobs, ect.). Most of the people that don't have little chance of getting a real job after school. The last service forester posting in my state had over 100 applicants, you need to stand out.

One of the smartest things I ever did (well there aren't that many to pick from :D ) was take 5 years to finish school. I could have finished in 4 but I wouldn't have been able to get a summer internship and take some more advanced classes that boosted the resume a bit.

Here's a sobering thought, out of 25 people in my graduating forestry class only 5 of us are doing anything related to forestry.

trees132 · January 30, 2003, 05:05:39 PM

hey
sorry i havent replied for a few days. havent had the time to get to the computer. Thanks for the offer Bull but im still a junior in high school so it might be kind of hard. It sounds really interesting though. Thanks alot for all the help. I still think that this is something im interesting in doing. Have a good one.