Is this a good idea?

[scgargoyle]

We were just visiting our land in SC, and a guy from down the street introduced himself, and quickly pointed out that he would remove my pines for free. As luck would have it, the pines (Virginia pine, I think) need to go, and it would be a good way to develop a friend and ally in the new neighborhood. But I do have concerns, such as the guy flattening himself or someone else in the process, or coming back to a naked woodlot ("I thought they was all pines"). Is there a way to protect yourself, such as a contract, or should I seek a bonded, insured company to remove trees? And what are a couple dozen Virginia pines (12" DBH) worth, anyhow?

[DanG]

Well, I can ask you a few questions that you could be asking yourself.  Just why do those pines need to go?  Do you, or will you have a need for the lumber that they can provide?  Does that guy have a sawmill?  If so, could you maybe strike a deal to saw on shares?  Are you incapable of taking the trees down yourself, once you're ready to move up there?  They store much better on the stump than anywhere else.

[Blue Duck]

North Carolina born and raised here.  Virgina pine is primarily what I cut.  It is the least valuable of all the pine here.  I'm guessing the trees to be somewhere between $150-$200 for two dozen like you described and that is limbed, bucked into sawlogs and pulpwood logs and delivered to my dealer.  On the stump I probably would pass on the 24 trees because in this part of the country people give them to you.  I don't but the locals here refer to them as "niger pines", (yes even the black locals).  The reason it makes up 80% of the wood I cut and sell is people call me all time saying "I've got 2 acres of (junk) pines.  I'll give them to you if you will come cut 'em and get 'em out of here so we can pasture it in." 

The biggest problem with virgina pine is they grow with a shallow root system on usually rough terrain.  They grow pretty fast, have a thousand limbs, and the first good ice storm you have (we get one bad one every 5 years) those suckers are laying down and breaking in half.  They get big quick then they die.  We had one of those storms last December.  The neighbor had 35 acres of river hill covered with virgina pine.  It soundind like a small battle in the civil war going on all threw the night( pow, crash, crack, pow).  The war zone that is left makes good deer habitat for  couple years but what didn't get broke in th storm will be killed by the pine beetles.  I've not seen yours but they can make a heck of a mess if you leave them long enough. 

[Raider Bill]

I know this is off topic a bit but I was wondering how loblolly pines do as they mature. Do they have the same charteristics as virginia pines such as short lifespan, wind and ice issues?

[Blue Duck]

Raider Bill- Sometimes but not usually.  Last summer I did cleanup on 22 acre tract of row planted loblolly for an elderly gentleman.  He has had it in forestry service program for 22 years and last summer they told him to do a fourth  row thinning on it.  Well, when the ice came those trees at the edge of the rows didn't have one another to lean on so they started bowing down and breaking in half.  Everydody around here that had a thinning in 2005 had severe tree loss.  But generally they are pretty hardy.  I'm at the foothills of the mountains and of the pines the volunteer shortleafs seem to do the best at standing the test of time. 

[WDH]

24 virginia pine trees are not worth much on the market because the cost to remove so few trees exceeds their value as stumpage.  The only way to really receive any value from them is to make a deal with someone with a portable sawmill who can saw them into lumber and will give you some of the lumber as part of the "barter".   If you let this guy cut and remove them and you are concerned about liability, you could prepare a simple letter-of-agreement that specifies that he can cut and remove the trees with all the risk of injury or loss on him and no liability to you.  Also, to protect yourself from unauthorized removal of additional trees, you could paint the butts of the trees you want removed and you could state in the letter of agreement that only trees with painted butts are to be removed.  That way, after they are felled, you can look at the butt of the felled trees and you should still be able to see the paint.  The letter of agreenment can be that simple, with only a couple of paragraphs with no lawyer-speak, and get him to sign his acknowledgement. 

[Raider Bill]

Raider Bill- Sometimes but not usually.  Last summer I did cleanup on 22 acre tract of row planted loblolly for an elderly gentleman.  He has had it in forestry service program for 22 years and last summer they told him to do a fourth  row thinning on it.  Well, when the ice came those trees at the edge of the rows didn't have one another to lean on so they started bowing down and breaking in half.  Everydody around here that had a thinning in 2005 had severe tree loss.  But generally they are pretty hardy.  I'm at the foothills of the mountains and of the pines the volunteer shortleafs seem to do the best at standing the test of time. 

I've got 69 acres of mostly 16 year old loblolly. It's on the north side of the smokies. It's thick. I see a lot of blow down in the area espessically in the un toched virgin timber parts. Many leaners.

[rebocardo]

WDH's echos most of what I would have said with the addition I usually number the trees with an orange 1, 2, 3, and state the number of trees I am removing so there is no doubt about the number, but, also the location.

Mostly so people can't add a tree, but, in your case so someone can't paint another one.

[TexasTimbers]

RB,

The loblolly on my MILs place is nearing the end of its life cycle according to what the TFS told her when they planted them 25 years ago.
They are still standing after a hard blow long after the live oaks have toppled.
But tehy are dtying pretty well now. I have had to drop dozens over the past couple of years due to them being dead on the stump.
To my knowledge she has never had a live topple due to wind.
They are one of the better if not best SYP for Timber Framing based on my research and thus for framing in general. Of course, they are not old growth so you can't compare them, with thier 1/8 to 1/4" rings to "real" SYP like our grandads and great grandads logged . . . . . . 

[DanG]

If I had to rank the 4 major SYPs, they would queue up as Longleaf, Slash, Loblolly, Shortleaf, with those last two being pretty much equal.  I base this strictly on what I have seen in my sawing experience.  I wouldn't be afraid to use any of them for any kind of framing, though. 

Kevjay, I think somebody misunderstood something about your MIL's pines.  I'm sure one of the Foresters will chime in with the true scoop, but 25 years seems mighty short to me.  I'm thinking that would be more like final thinning time, or the point where they would be merchantable as sawlogs.

[scgargoyle]

As for why they need to go:
1) They are in the way of my driveway, and I don't want nearby ones falling on it.
2) I don't like 'em. I've got 7 acres of nearly all hardwoods, and the pines spoil the view, and do fall down easily. There are 2 laying across my driveway-to-be already.
I figure, if this guy wants 'em, and I can protect myself legally, he's welcome to 'em. If I had a sawmill, I might try to make 'em into beams for a barn or something, but I don't have a place to store 'em, and I only get up there twice a year until I move there. There are a few more sprinkled around the property, but I can deal w/ those after I move up there.

[Tom]

Not liking them is certainly reason enough to get rid of them.  Personally I think God knew what he was doing when he made a pine.  I love them.  They are strong, light and make some of the best building material a man could find.   Hopefully your neighbor will put them to good use.