Walnut Sapwood.. Waste?

Trent · January 13, 2007, 05:56:15 PM

I have little walnut log and a walnut crotch to saw up. The log only measures about 14" dia. and there is nearly 2" sapwood. I plan to QS and keep the quality high. Is the sapwood useless and therefore should not be present in any of the finished boards? In addition, I have a few cherry to cut (about the same dia.) Is the sapwood of cherry thick also? Thank You

Bibbyman · January 13, 2007, 05:59:18 PM

If the log is fresh and the sap not starting to rot, I'd leave the sapwood on. It make for a very interesting contrast in a finished product. I wouldn't quarter saw walnut eather. It's the least attactive way to show the color pattern.

SwampDonkey · January 13, 2007, 06:54:41 PM

Not only what Bibby said, but a lot of folks working with the sapwood will steam or stain it to match the heartwood. Black walnut, as well as butternut are two of the best woods not to move much when drying. They have a ranking of 2 out of 5, 2 being very good, 5 is poor and 1 is excellent. Yellow poplar and the locusts being similar.

Brad_S. · January 13, 2007, 07:01:11 PM

Sapwood is not considered a defect, so you would be throwing away plenty of good usable lumber.
Additionally, 14" is awfully small for QSing. Throw out the sapwood and I'll bet you would lose more than 50% of the log and have an whole lot of very narrow boards to boot.

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · January 13, 2007, 07:13:28 PM

As mentioned, Walnut (as well as Black Cherry) are most commonly flat sawn.
That gives the grain most people expect.

Walnut is so dimensionally stable when drying, that you don't need to consider
quartersawing from that perspective. Walnut is so sweet that you won't
believe how easily it dries.

When flat sawing, it is great to try to "frame" your grain patterns, in other words,
center the cathedral-like patterns of the grain in the face of the boards. Although
not possible all the time, that also would mean a little sap to each edge of your
many of your boards.
Phil L.
Phil L.

Larry · January 13, 2007, 07:32:23 PM

If your sawing the walnut for the retail market, only 1 out of a 100 will pay for walnut sapwood. I normally leave a little sapwood which will come off when I slr after the kiln.

Wholesale is a different story as the walnut is always steamed.

I don't get much cherry to saw but I like the sapwood. Almost always keep it all for myself...I don't like to share. ;D

Engineer · January 13, 2007, 09:27:07 PM

Quote from: Larry on January 13, 2007, 07:32:23 PM
If your sawing the walnut for the retail market, only 1 out of a 100 will pay for walnut sapwood.

I'd be that one. I love the contrast of walnut sapwood (and cherry, too). I'd pay extra for nice boards that had a bit of sapwood on them. You can't buy that locally at all.

What I'd really like is some walnut logs, though. Can't get them around here either.

Larry · January 13, 2007, 09:49:38 PM

A lot of people don't know what they are missing. Dad likes boards that run maybe 3/4 heartwood. I keep his boards separate and number them so he can book match later. I have to watch how I dry the boards also...if done properly you can keep the sapwood a very bright white. Takes little more effort to finish properly as the sapwood is a different texture.

mike_van · January 13, 2007, 09:54:45 PM

Kind of "to each his own" on the sapwood Trent - I saw a walnut floor in a house awhile ago, at least half the boards had sapwood - I thought it looked terrible - More like Zebrawood than walnut, but thats just my 2 cents. Don't qsaw it though, flatsawn walnut is where the beauty is -

Part_Timer · January 13, 2007, 10:58:37 PM

I don't have any problems selling it with the sap but others do. If I'm sawing for selling to others I flat saw walnut but I keep some qsawn for a couple of guys that stop in from time to time. If I'm sawing for me I cut it for what I want the end product to look like.

I have customers that only want qsawn oak and others that only want flat sawn. I believe that qsawn vs flat sawn is more subjective than technical sometimes.

Cut what your customers will buy and you can't go wrong.

oakiemac · January 15, 2007, 05:48:47 PM

When I saw cherry or walnut I try to trim as much of the sap wood off as possible. You loose some board footage but then you make the board sellable. It is stupid, but most of my customers will not buy a perfect FAS walnut or cherry if it has more then a little sap on it. If the board is low grade then I leave all the sap wood on and it goes into a pile of lumber which is eventually going in my house as paneling and flooring. I love the contrast and I think it will look really sharp.
I wouldnt QS a 14" log-way too small. I also wouldn't QS walnut or cherry unless someone was special ordering it that way.

Engineer · January 15, 2007, 06:05:51 PM

I dunno about people not wanting QS walnut or cherry. I have been working on a kitchen project for my house, and rooting around for the nasty, gnarly scraps and short pieces of cherry to make the face frames. To make a long story shorter, I took a big old cracked and split 4x6 cherry beam that was black with dirt and age and heart-cut. I sawed it up on my bandsaw and got severl dozen feet of the nicest QS cherry that you could imagine, all the fancy bees-wing figure, almost iridescent, and a lot of mineral spots as well. I was gonna burn that piece, good thing I didn't. Anyway, for cabinet work, I really like QS anything for the stability. I'm setting aside a whole pile of QS ash for my office furniture.

beenthere · January 15, 2007, 07:18:41 PM

Some pictures of that cherry would be great to see and ponder.

rebocardo · January 15, 2007, 07:29:11 PM

I am not a big wood worker, but, I consider any wood with the contrasting sapwood pretty and desirable. But, thats me ;)

Robert Long · January 15, 2007, 07:42:27 PM

Trent;
I would believe the log sizes are not worth trying to remove or worry about the sap wood and the value of quarter sawing small diameter logs is not there as you will have less than a 4" surface of quarter sawn surface. much above has been said of trying to quarter saw walnut..

Keep those ideas for the big ones !

Robert

SwampDonkey · January 15, 2007, 07:55:17 PM

I wouldn't mind the sap. Sometimes I match the heart for a couple doors or drawers, or try to. And that sap edge that is left could be a drawer slide or 3 inch wide face of a cabinet or some other trim. I can't believe how straight grained this butternut is I'm using. I can't tell where one board starts and the next begins on these edge jointed boards. I'll bet the same can be said for a lot of walnut sawn to. I love ash to, it has a luster like glass when polished and that straight grain is great to. ;D

Engineer · January 15, 2007, 10:04:14 PM

Quote from: beenthere on January 15, 2007, 07:18:41 PM
Some pictures of that cherry would be great to see and ponder.

I'll do what I can, but I doubt my camera could do it justice. A thin coat of 1-lb cut shellac brings it out like you wouldn't believe.

tdelorme · January 16, 2007, 10:12:03 PM

Trent, like others have said some folks like it and some don't but you would not believe how much I'm getting for a sofa table made with this sappy walnut. It is a really nice piece of lumber.

metalspinner · January 16, 2007, 10:29:15 PM

Does anyone else's cherry boards that include sap warp badly? I find that sap on one face of cherry creates severe cup and sap on one edges gives me crook.

Walnut, however, has no drying defects because of incuded sap that I have noticed.

What causes this drying problem in my cherry? Can I stop it?

Personally, I incorperate all the variences in a board that I can. It just shows that the piece of wood is real. People ask me how or why I stained that board like that. :D That gives me a chance to educate them a little about tree's and wood. It makes them appreciate the wood a bit more.

Most people know very little about wood. They just see "light" or "dark" wood and think it is all stained. :

So any chance I have to show off what God has made I jump at the opportunity.

SwampDonkey · January 16, 2007, 11:43:42 PM

Walnut is very stable dimensionally, like butternut because of the grain. Cherry should be similar as it has low shrinkage and not prone to warping. Is the wood dried good? I stacked my cherry on the bottom of the pile, stickered, it seems to be doing fine. The only thing I am thinking is that sap is on one face and loosing more water or at a different rate than the heartwood.

Norm · January 17, 2007, 10:30:59 AM

I run into the same thing with cherry, if it has sapwood on one side of the board it will cup badly. I try to make sure to not get that when sawing an opening face on cherry logs. I do not have this problem with walnut.

Engineer · January 17, 2007, 10:54:26 AM

I sawed a piece of cherry off the top of a log with some crook to it, so that the crook was facing up on the mill. The resulting board had sap on both edges but only had heartwood in a football-sized oval on one side, and running the entire length on the other side. The board turned into a bowl, I could not stop it. I decided to leave it alone as it was interesting and could not be turned into anything usable other than firewood or pen blanks.