Best Mill for hitting nails, and metal, & dirty logs, pwr poles etc

[Nate Surveyor]

Circle mill,
Band Mill
Chain saw mill

I did my study of this 10 or so yrs ago, and decided that Circle was better, however Logdog said he has run both, and band is less expensive. And has receipts!

So, either I am wrong (now that has been true many times!) or technology has improved the bands, but not yet the circle mills, or Logdog has an expensive saw doc. Or something I don't know about. (pretty common too!) I don't really know. I almost always take the man with experience, OVER the man with theory!

I can say that chain saws dull real easy! And metal often takes whole teeth off. Especially when sharp. Because they are taking a bigger bite, when sharp.
I do have experience with chain saw mills. I had a Logosol for over a year, and built a building  with it.

But, my study was NOT based on ownership and use of both (circle & band). Just reading.

So, I ask, which one is CHEAPER to keep blades on, and of the band blades, which ones are best?

Maybe the type to teeth on the circle blades has something to do with it. What kind of teeth are best?

This [thread] is supposed to be continuing education for all of us, but especially for me. I am totally hooked on milling. I mean, I really enjoy opening a new log, to see it's beauty! I have said that I NEVER want to be without a mill, for the REST of my life. And I really feel that way!

And I am learning to build! Pics are coming!

But, anyway, what is best now, and WHY?

Thanks everybody.

Nate

[DanG]

 :D :D :D  While you were asking this, I was answering it on the "How to avoid nails" thread.  How's that for service? ;)

I think the bandmill has a slight edge here, as it cannot cost more than the price of a band.  Barring a catastrophic hit that destroys a circle blade though, I think the expense is about the same.

[Dave Shepard]

I think there are going to be a wide range of factors that determine which is actually cheaper. How many employees are standing around waiting on a repair would certainly be an important factor. If you have a high production rate, and many people on the job, downtime becomes expensive very quickly, certainly beyond the cost of the band or bits.


Dave

[Captain]

I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one....

[Ianab]

I'd suggest the small circle blades, IF you have your own retipping jig etc.

If you have to send them out then it's probably more even.

Now this doesn't take your time into account, if you have to spend an hour retipping all your blades after a bad day, that still has to be accounted for, but you only asked about cost, not time.

On the other hand what is the most cost effective if you DONT hit metal that day? That day I think the circle blade wins hands down ;)

Cheers

Ian

[getoverit]

I think you have the wrong question here.... it is not which one is better for hitting nails and junk, it is how far away from home and your tools you are. .....makes all the difference in the world.

I remember traveling about 2 hours to saw a log for a forum member with the Peterson, and only getting 1/3 through the log before finding  a series of nails from the steps of a tree stand. Took every tooth off of the blade and then for some reason I couldnt get the blade off to change it with the spare blade I had brought with me. Took me about 10 minutes to change the blade once I got back home and had my tools to work on it.

With the bandmill, I remember one job I babied through with a lovejoy coupling that was slipping on the shaft. Took me twice as long to saw because I had to go so slow and keep stopping to tighten the set screws. Once I got home, I had it fixed in 10 minutes with a tack weld.

[Nate Surveyor]

All mills dislike metal. In the logs. (I think I can prove this!)

So, what do all mills have in common?

The need for repairs.

Ugh!

N

[Dave Shepard]

You could always rive the logs, that won't be slowed by hardware. ;) :D : In fact the only way to make it slower would be to drop dead from boredom.


Dave

[thecfarm]

This is a easy one.Best mill for hitting nails,      someone else's.   :D  :D   :D  :D   :D

[Part_Timer]

The  band was cheaper for me.  I just put the blade in the box headed for resharp and a new one came back $20 or so.   Shipping does not count since I had to ship the other back for sharpening.   If I have to have a blade retipped it is $35 for shipping round trip + the cost of repairs.

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm running a bigger circle mill.  If you're running a stationary mill, I think that it is cost effective when it comes to saw expenses.  I've sawn with a debarker and without, and I've sawn on high production mills and on lower production hand mills. 

A box of teeth costs about $100-125 on today's market.  It depends on how many boxes you buy, and the cost of steel.  My saw takes 46 teeth and I'm using just a regular steel bit.  At $1.25/bit, it costs about $57.50 to retooth the whole saw.  If you use chrome or carbide, costs are a lot higher.

Sharpening of the saw happens without removing the saw.  Tools needed are either an 8" or a 10" mill bastard.  Costs about $7 and will last at least through 1 set, maybe 2 sets of teeth.  You should also have a swage to widen the tooth as they get shorter.  It takes 5 minutes to sharpen a big saw by hand.

With debarked logs, I will get 50-75 Mbf on a set of teeth.  So, that means I'm sawing for about $1/Mbf or less.  If you are running unbarked logs, you will double that price. 

I have hit at least 1000 nails in my sawing career, along with other pieces of trash.  I have destroyed one saw due to some serious metal (50 MMbf worth of production).  I've taken off a few shoulders that were repaired, but that occurs only about once every 3-4 years or about once every 8-10 MMbf.  A shoulder repair is about $100. 

When I hit a nail, my rim speed is about 120 mph.  I will ding some teeth up, but it will rarely take them out.  My expense is really negligble.  On rare occasion I'll have to replace a few teeth.  So, there my costs are only a few bucks, normally less than $5.

I have never been able to justify the costs of carbide on my circle mill.  Apparently the smaller circle mills can justify it.  For inserted tooth saw, I favor regular steel bits as being cost effective. 

[Warren]

Thecfarm beat me too it !    ;D

[dad2nine]

Best mill for hitting trash, I would have to say is none. Only because a buddy of mine hit a piece of angle iron in a yard tree walnut with his Hudson band mill. The band must have caught just right because it snapped the drive shaft. That was a pretty expensive repair and resulted in several days down time to get a new shaft made up at a local machine shop. Most other times it's just a few broken teeth and a blade replacement fee, no real damage done...

Thanks

[DanG]

Makes a metal detector seem like pretty cheap insurance, don't it?

[Dan_Shade]

my metal detectors cost about $20

[LeeB]

This is a easy one.Best mill for hitting nails,      someone else's.   :D  :D   :D  :D   :D

I was thinking the same thing about power poles.

[Nate Surveyor]

Dan Shade,

Metal detectors for $20? what are you talking about?

I don't know of ANY that are adequate for finding a nail 6-8" deep in a log, for less than $500.

I have a Shonstedt Pistol, and it cost around $850! Of course, I use it for other things too, but I'd really like to know about a cheaper alternative!


N

[scsmith42]

Nate, "reading between the lines" on Dan's response, I'll bet that the "metal detectors" for $20.00 that he's referrring to are "bandsaw blades..."

<grin>

[Nate Surveyor]

scsmith, I suppose you are right...

The band DOES detect the nail!!!

Even gives an AUDIO response!!

CHING!

Nate

[Dan_Shade]

it's more like "zinggggg"  or if you really do it right "pow!"

  I charge customers for metal strikes, i can't see me spending a bunch of cash on a metal detector using a bandsaw (and I don't need another hobby).

[oakiemac]

I have debated this one myself since I hit a lot of metal. I use steel bits for this reason which cost $1.12 each. If I hit metal and assuming that I destroy every tooth on the saw my cost is $20.16 and about 15-20minutes down time. This senario has never happened-most time I have to replace about 3-4 teeth and sharpen so on average I say a nail costs me about $4.48 and a short down time.
Bands are around $20 a piece and I don't know if they can be salvaged after metal hits or not. It probably depends on the size of the chunk of steel just like it does with the teeth.
My saw uses inserted tooth blades, so data is certainly different for those that have blazed on tips.