Newcomer with questions about splines

[stenger]

Hello gentlemen,
I've been checking out this site off and on for some time now. I've learned a lot and enjoyed the opportunity to read your messages. I'm just about ready to start cutting out and erecting a hybred squared log- timber frame- polebarn house. I have lots of logs cut and a friend with a portable sawmill. My foundation work is pretty well complete , and my wife is just about ready to skin me if I don't start making some  progress.
There have been quite a few delays, and each one gives me time to rethink the design. I've got lots of wood and little money so the intent is to maximize use of my available resourse. My other constraint is that I'm certainly not a natural born builder. A true timber frame is way beyond my skill level, even a pole barn is honestly a fairly good stretch.
What I've finally come up with is something like the stave churches built in Norway centuries ago. Much the same idea was used to construct the oldest surviving house house in Ohio[The Rufus Putnam house in Marietta] The basic concept is to set thick vertical planks in a timber frame, morticed into sill and top plate and fitted into each other. My consession to lack of skill and aptitude is to modify the top plate into bolted girts like in a pole barn and nail bracing onto the inside of the vertical planks and abutting rather than notched into the posts. The end result will be somewhat like a timber frame with vertical wood infill, the main difference being that the frame and infill will constructed at the same time, not the frame first.
I plan to cut the planks 4 to 5 inches thick and 10 to 15 inches wide. Seems prudent to cut grooves into the sides of all the uprights- both posts and planks- and spline them all together. Have any of you suggestions on how to do all the " grooving"?  I'd like the splines to fit fairly tight. A hand held machine that I can quickly and accurately run down the logs is needed. A chainsaw seems prone to wandering and inaccuracy. I'd like the grooves to be at least 1/2 or maybe 1inch thick. Is a plunge router the tool I'm looking for?  In my internet wanderings, I've seen mention of the Makita 3803A groove cutter. This would be an expensive little tool, but might be sufficiently fast and accurate to justify buying, as I have lots of grooving ahead of me. Any information about using the plunge router or the groove cutter will be grearly appreciated, along with any other comments criticism, or suggestions.
One other thing I'd like to mention is in regards to the timber frame house built by Q Weaver, which I've seen displayed on this site. I noticed Mr. Weaver is from Lewis County West Virginia and and may even be a distant relative of mine since I have a grandmother whose maiden name was Weaver from Ireland, the location of which few on this site (except Q weaver ) are likely familiar.
A while back I was hauling a load of cattle to the livestock market when I happened to look across the river (which parallels the road) and much to my pleasure and surprise there stood the Weaver timberframe- even more handsome in the flesh than the photo's depict. I've been wanting to stop by and introduce myself but haven't, so I'll take this opportunity to say :
" Hello Neighbor! "
My grandad used to say that Lewis County pee is Harrison County tea. I don't really care to drink that West Fork fortified water you guys send our way, but I sure do enjoy swimming in it. Our land borders the river near West Milford. If you have any extra poplar logs laying around, just toss them in the water and I'll fish them out down here when they float by.
Sincerely,
John Stenger

[Jim_Rogers]

Welcome, John:
I'll upload a picture of a home made groove cutter tomorrow, I can't do it tonight.
I've got an appointment I have to leave right away.

Jim Rogers

[pineywoods]

John, I built a small log cabin for my son.  I splined all the logs together.  Used a good heavy-duty router with a 3/4 inch straight cut bit. Usually took 2 passes to cut the groove deep enough, but it worked out well. Pics in my gallery..

[shinnlinger]

Hi,

I have heard you can stick a stacked dado blade on a Skil 8-1/4 raftermaster circular saw (Of course I bet you could put a 6 inch wobble blade on a smaller one)

I happen to have one of these saws and a few dado sets so if that is somthing that interests you and you want me to "give it a whirl" before you go out and buy one I will.  I might even try it tomorrow anyway as I can envision more than one scenario where that might come in handy.  I look forward to Jim's machine as well.

And let me take this oppurtunity for a shamless plug for the "flying H"  you can see it under tools for timber framers

[Furby]

If your planks are cut square, I really don't see why a small chainsaw with a homemade guide mounted on the bar wouldn't be the best idea.
If the planks are even, a guide that follows along both sides would keep the saw square and with the saw tipped down a bit you should be able to get a nice cut.
The wood will be green/wet for a long time at those sizes and saw blades/router bits don't really like wet wood all that much.
I would also think about doing a double spline because of the movement I'm thinking will take place.
I think T&G might be better in the long run though.

[Jim_Rogers]

This is a picture is of a regular skil saw with extra blades on it to make a groove cutter:

[Qweaver]

Howdy John and welcome to the forum.  Plan to stop by and chat.  We are here at the cabin 24/7 now and we love company so come on by.  We may indeed be related.  I know that my grandfather's family came from that area but I'm not sure of the exact family names.
Are you planning to use poplar for your infill timbers?  Based on what I've encountered in my building, shrinkage and warping would be a consideration on thick timbers. 
Quinton

[stenger]

Thanks fellows for all your suggestions. There seem to be lots of ways to skin this cat.
I just did some rough calculations and figure I'll have roughly a mile of grooving in my plank infill wall walls.I'm thinking I might need close to a 3/4 inch spline in the 4 inch planks. By the way, is there any standard, or rule of thumb or formula for the width and depth of a groove in proportion to thickness of the wood?  If and I repeat "if" my posts and planks upon erection are pretty near straight and true, then I believe FURBY's idea of using a homemade jig with a chainsaw to simply follow the edge would be a quick and efficient method. However, I believe that (unless I dry and plane everything) the wood will shrink, twist, bow, warp and wain sufficiently, even right off the sawmill, to prevent splining using any tool with an edge guided jig. I will be using poplar for these planks and I believe Q WEAVER was warning me of this problem.
Seems to me I'll have to center or measure in a set distance from the edge at the top and bottom of each plank and then strike and follow a line. JIM ROGERS, I'm impressed with your homemade groove cutter. Looks like there are at least 5 blades on the saw, I wonder what's the upper limit on blades? My guess is that if you go too wide it would bog down the saw. If I couldn't operate with enough blades to get the desired width, I'd just have to make a couple of passes. SHINLINGER, is your setup about the same thing as the ROGERS groove cutter?  Also, I looked to find the "Flying H" but came up empty, maybe I overlooked it. Is it some sort of groove cutter?
PINEY WOODS, I've strongly considered going your router route. I'm wondering about how fast in feet per minute or minutes per foot a router would cut a 3/4 or maybe 5/8 groove in poplar?  Is a 3 hp plunge router the type I'd need?
Does anyone have any experience with or even know someone who has used the Makita 3803 groove cutter or a similar tool from another company? If this tool would do in days what anything else would do in weeks I might be ahead to spend the $700+ the thing costs and when sell it when I'm done.
Q WEAVER, thanks for the invitation. Next  time I'm in Weston and not pressed for time I hope to pay you a visit.
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions
John Stenger

[Jim_Rogers]

JIM ROGERS, I'm impressed with your homemade groove cutter. Looks like there are at least 5 blades on the saw, I wonder what's the upper limit on blades?

It isn't mine, I saw it on a job site one day. I don't have an answer to your question. I think he removed the standard bolt that came with the saw and used a longer one to get those in place but I really don't remember.

Jim Rogers

[shinnlinger]

Stegs,

The Flyhing H is at the end of this https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6403.20.html

It is the tools for timber framers post at the top of this forum.

I was thinking of sticking a dado set  (to reduce mass)in my big worm drive, but I haven't yet.  You may have a tough time finding a longer reverse thread bolt for a circ saw, but if you use a regular washers instead of the the factory spacer you might have some luck, but I would think 3/4 worth of blades would be alot of mass for a 7-1/4 sidewinder to spin, what ever you do, hold on!

If you go the router route I would get more than a couple of bits and the biggest dang router you can....1 mile of 3/4 inch groove is alot.  That is why I think a circ saw might be a more economical option for you unless you have much call for a BFR.  I would think a BFS would find more use.

[shinnlinger]

Hey,

I went out and looked at some of my saws, and it looks like regardless of model you will have to remove the blade guard and the spacers .  Maybe a good fastner house can get you a reversed bolt for your saw or a machine shop could proably turn you one.  I would think a six inch dado set would be ideal for use on your new saw if you decide you want to go the circ saw route.

[Don P]

I've used the big router and an end mill type bit to cut large grooves. For that quantity I think you'll probably risk going through more than one router and several bits. I've used wing cutters to cut small, shallow grooves about 1/4 widex1/2" deep. They work great for that. Basically making a small shaper out of it. The bigger and wider the cutter the more dangerous that is going to be in a hand held.

On the Makita saw Jim pictured, I'm not sure how they've done that. There is a step in the motor side collar that the hole on the blade sits on. There is room on that step for 2 or maybe three blades. The bolt is much smaller than the hole in the blade so any blades not on the step are not centered or not supported. I think it would take some machining a bushing of some sort or fastening the blades of the stack together to get much of a groover. Those saws also don't have enough oomph to sustain that kind of work for too long. I've been through a number of those through the years, there are three at work now, I think all are a cobble of old parts. They have good power to weight and are pretty inexpensive but aren't up to long term running at full load. A big worm drive with a solid dado would probably be better but the kickback could be rough. I bet a Prazi's long arbor bolt would work.

I've used the groover once, so not enough experience to say for sure. If it can give you the width and depth you need that with a fence would be my choice though.

I think you do want to index off the edge rather than popping a straight line and wandering in relation to the edge. Doing that will lead to mismatches in the face alignment.

Not that its this application but for some more background. Commercial 4x (3-1/2") thick heavy timber decking usually has 2 t&g's. The grooves are 7/16" wide x 3/8" deep, tongues are 3/8 x 5/16". This is for 19% or drier material.