Forest management, a return to natural selection?

[chain]

For this forest manager, I see the decisons of today in forest management will affect  a forest for 50 or more years. No interest have I, of intensive management as of southern pine and cottonwood plantations, no walnut agro-forestry apllications, etc. Just thinning, prescribed burning, to re-delvelop a natural savannah-grass-timbered pine & oak forest program of which was found in the Ozark regions of Missouri -Arkansas in early pioneer settlement. Can this be done? Exotics, plant-insects-diseases a factor? This worries me.

[Bro. Noble]

We bought an acerage about 40 years ago that had all the open ground planted to SYP except for about 10 acres.  I don't know why they didn't plant this patch,  but it was in the back of the field with a bluff on one side and deep hollows on two sides.  The other side was the part of the field that was planted and was big enough at the time we bought it that we had no access to the 10 unplanted acres.  I'd had always planned to cut a road back to the patch and finally did a couple of years ago.  I think this might be close to what you are talking about.  After being untouched since the mid 50's,  you would have a hard time distinguishing this from a natural forest except that it's on fairly level ground.  We logged the area a couple of years ago and cut a lot of ties from post oaks that we harvested there.  We had an order for some big cedar lumber and that's where we went for the trees.  Last year se sold utility poles and got a few off of that patch.  Those three species are the primary trees that have grown back.  I think I like it better than where they planted the pines.

We're in Ozark Co. if you would like to come see what it looks like.

[chain]

We're near the eastern edge of St. Francis mountains and ozark plateau; we may have much in common as the restoration of glades and native pine-grass savannahs, has begun on many State forest and conservation areas.  As unlike your management, the approach here is such that I have to manage a climaxtic forest, drastically declining. We managed for wild pine seedings with some luck. There may be more clear-cutting soon and must decide of a new plan. I've studied the comprehensive county soil surveys of the local vicinity plus the private land and forestry consultants have nearly convinced us to..'go back'..to the future..lol...I appreciate the invite, looking forward to meeting you.

[jeffreythree]

I am no expert, but I have a bit of property that is similar to what you are looking to do.  It was logged some years before I bought it(maybe 10-15).  I am at the intersection of the piney woods of East Texas and post oak savannah.  Someone cut all of the willow and water oak off of about 5 acres and left only post oaks on about 3 acres of that.  The 3 acres returned to post oak savannah with a lot of shade tolerant native grasses growing under the large post oaks.  The areas completely untouched have a mix of hardwoods and have none of these grasses, and are a lot more shaded.  I was told any pine was cut off long ago.  This area is only showing regeneration from post oak with little of the hickory, elm, and ash I have as an understory on the rest of the property. 

[chain]

Jeff, looks like you do have some interesting management decisions, what I like there is your diversity. Also, could not help but notice your photos of the 'kissing tree', as I have slides somewhere around here of such a tree on our tree farm. Just my thing, but i call them 'indian' trees as our Native Americans held such oddities of nature in great reverence. Hope I'm not offending anyone, but our tree farm is very near the Cherokee "Trail of Tears", a trail marking their forced removal from the SE to Oklahoma in 1830s. My sincerity is for the people of the great Tribes.

Did you ever identify the mystery tree?

[jeffreythree]

chain, the helpful members here identified it as an ash, most likely green ash.  The post oak savannah area we have is our best place to put a cabin; so I am planning on seeding a native, shade tolerant grass mix I found including Purpletop, Inland Seaoats, Prairie Wildrye, Sideoats Grama, Virginia Wildrye, Plains Bristlegrass, and Texas Wintergrass to fill it in better.  Open and park like with unmarketable but nice looking 30+" dbh post oaks.

[chain]

Well, that's interesting in that our savannahs will be pine with some post oak, black gum 'dens', on broad ridges with warm season grass. We never harvest  post oak or black gum as they seem to be more valuable to wildlfe; turkey, deer, many others feed heavily later in fall and winter. Of course we will never get back what was once native here, as the chestnut is gone and other species like ash is threatened by the Emerald borer, not to mention the exotics as culprits to our management. I have joined a group that are trying to re-establish the 'Ozark Chinquapin' tree, which went nearly extinct as the chestnut. However, this tree is much like a chestnut as the fruits[nuts] are enclosed in a bur, I was sent six seed last spring and fumbled-bumbled around and saved but two as seedlings. If you or anyone else is interested you may search-out 'Ozark Chinkquapin Foundation.'

[John Mc]

Of course we will never get back what was once native here, as the chestnut is gone...

The American Chestnut Foundation ( www.acf.org ) is getting very close to having blight resistant American Chestnut hybrids available (I think they are something like 15/16 American Chestnut with 1/16 something else... maybe Chinese Chestnut??). Their goal is to have a disease resistant tree that still has good timber form (and of course it will be a good source of hard mast for wildlife). I've been keeping my eye on their site for developments.

John Mc

[chain]

By golly, I'll sure take that hybird Chestnut! I am somewhat familiar with the Chinese Chestnut as I pass by an 'orchard' or plantation several times a year. They've always seemed heathy, green, and are irrigated and seem to produce very well.