For you "mobile" sawyers

[Chuck White]

When you are doing a sawjob by the hour vs by the board foot sawed, do you start charging from the time you start the mill and go by the clock or do you go by the hour meter?

The reason I ask is many times the customer wants to stop and bs or throw questions at you.  Now if you shut the engine down, the hour meter isn't running.

[stumpy]

I tell the customer that the clock starts when I arrive and stops when I hook the mill up to my truck.  I also make suggestions to him on ways he can reduce his cost by keeping me sawing.  That usually reduces the "BS" time.  I also have a 5 hour minimum and a $20 per blade charge for hitting objects in the log.  Many times people call me with only a couple logs.  The 5 hour minimum would normally kill the deal, but i then offer to pick up the logs and saw them at my place. I charge the same per hour, but it still many times comes out better than the minimum for them.  To tell the truth, I prefer doing that anyway.

[Chuck White]

Thanks for the quick reply Stumpy.

I've been thinking that the clock starts when the engine starts and ends at the end of the day or the end of the job.

[customsawyer]

I don't do much by the hour but when I do it is from my drive way to my drive way. I figure it don't much matter if I am running the mill or my truck pulling the mill I still need to make the same.
I also do this to try to help the customer see the plus side of things when they bring me the logs if they don't have enough to make it worth my trip.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Almost all my work is hourly because I  don't travel out to the jobs to give estimates which is pretty much the only way I could set a b.f. price.   I measure time from after I set up and am ready to cut the first log,  to when I cut the last log, minus my breaks and any downtime due to any equipment failure or my mistakes.    I allow up to 30 minutes free setup so if it takes longer than that the customer pays for the excess.   My packing up takes usually 30-45 minutes which I don't charge for. So for a day where I charge for 7 hours I might be on site for 9 and driving for another 2.  I apply a minimum charge in # hours greater depending on the distance. All this is in my contract so everything else that takes time can be charged and the customer knows it in advance. I say "I charge for the time I am working for you".  However if I spend a lot of time consulting I may not charge the full time spent for that.  Also if I think things are going slow because of me,  like I get a mental block and can't figure out quickly where to take the beam, or how to get started quartersawing a log, I may discount more time.   Sometimes a passersby will stop, or I will take a phone call or two, and I subtract these.  I tell the customer how I figured the time at the end, and haven't ever had any complaints.  Even so  once in a while it seems someone thinks the huge pile of wood should have cost less, but not sure what to do about that.  I don't usually tally up the board feet, it takes too much time.  I would be better served if I practiced to figure out the bf of everything in my head as I went along.   On bigger jobs with decent sized logs ready to cut, when I have done this the customer is usually paying between 25 and 40 cents a bf for the lumber at my hourly plus mileage rates.

[Magicman]

I saw by the clock, not the hourmeter.  I charge a $20 setup charge which takes care of traveling.  Customer BS time goes on the clock, but I'm very diligent to insure that the customer get's his money's worth.

Happy customers are repeat customers.  But I have to insure that I am happy also.   ;)

[backwoods sawyer]

I start the time when I am set up and ready for the first log, and end the time when I shut the mill down. I do charge a mileage fee so my travel time and fuel is covered. If the customer wants to B.S. that is fine with me as he is gaining knowledge about his wood, but a try to stay on subject. 

[sgschwend]

I only charge hourly on very small job, or jobs that the customer brings the logs to the wood lot.

When I move the mill I charge from the time I leave home till the cutting ends.  On the small jobs the mill spits out the boards plenty fast enough to allow for discussion and questions.  I want the customer to enjoy the cutting and also to hang around enough to lend a hand.  Small jobs the customer will demonstrate the type of cleanup and scrap wood handling they really want, so I want them there to show me how neat the place needs to be when I am done. 

On any job of substance I always charge by the board foot.

[customsawyer]

The other matter we are not discussing is the charge per hour. If I charged $30.00 more per hour than I would not have to charge for driving time and set up time.

[LeeB]

Around here if I charged $30 more per hour I wouldn't have to charge for set up and travel either, 'cause I wouldn't have any work.

[customsawyer]

That was just a "what if" number.

[LeeB]

I get $40 by the hour or $0.30 /BF. Set up and travel are on me unless it is over 50 miles then I charge $1/mile. I rarely work by the hour and can't reccall ever charging milage.

[redbeard]

If your sawing less than 500 bf , You probably should go by the hr. otherwise bf charge usually makes you more money,                                                          example 8hr day 5-gal fuel=30.00   2-blades =50.00  drive time 2-hr+fuel= 100.00  your labor 35.00 hr x 8hr= 280.00  grand total= 460.00                                     .30 bf x 1800 bf= 540.00

[weisyboy]

as i have a swing mill with a slabber i charge in 2 different ways.

when i cut dimensional boards with the blade i charge on log volume.

$200/m3 of log (not boards) = $0.45c/pf
$50 for each blade damaged (costs me $55 to get them retiped) i should charge more.
(works out to about $120 an hour most days)

when i cut with the slabber. i charge on an hourly rate as every log cuts at a different speed even 2 logs the same size of the same species that grew in deferent locations.

$120/ hour for me and a tailor. it ends up working out roughly the same m3 rate as the blade usually.

also doing custom/ special/ strange jobs i charge by the hour. i have to cut 15x 15 bridge beams down into 12 x 12s and smaller. next Monday so i charge this on an hourly rate.

i charge from when i pull in the driveway till the last board comes off the mill. that way wile i pack up the customer can get me some money.

free travel withing 30 mins, $50 withing an hour, $100 withing 2.5 hours, or free if there is a weeks work.

i also have a 4 hour minimum.

[pnyberg]

I charge my hourly rate by the clock basically from the time I arrive on site until the last board or beam is off the mill, subtracting time for breaks, maintenance, and screw ups by me.  So, I'm charging for setup time, but not tear down.  I also charge a travel fee that starts with the first mile.

--Peter

[Chuck White]

Well, thanks for the responses fellas!

I asked the question initially because I have a job (only about 8 miles away) coming up, to saw out 3-sided cabin logs out of Red Pine.

There may be a little side lumber, but most of them will be 3 trips down the rail and they'll be done!

I just didn't figure sawing like that, that it would be fair to the customer (a repeat customer) to charge by the board foot!

The logs will lay up 6 inches high (thick) and 8 inches from inside to outside (wide) by varying lengths.

[Magicman]

Chuck, hourly rate is the only way I would saw that job.  That's fair to you and the customer.

[weisyboy]

hourly for sure

[paul case]

chuck,
i would do that job by the hour also. i had one like that this spring. 60 or 70 logs flat on 2 sides for a log cabin. he had some that were only 4' and 6' long and didnt want any side lumber from those. we still had 25 hours in the job. on that one i charged from when i started til i got the band on the last bundle. loading the mill and offloading count too. those are paid for on a bdft job too you know?
while doing this i got real good at ways to be faster using the flip up dogs and edging.  like lee i charge $40/hr and $.30 ft . im not moble. pc

[terrifictimbersllc]

I just didn't figure sawing like that, that it would be fair to the customer (a repeat customer) to charge by the board foot!

Can't you pick a board foot rate that would be fair?

[ely]

i have sawn a few logs for houses. its been awhile though. i want to say i charged like 4 bucks the 12 footers. and half that for the shorter stuff. the guy was happy to pay it. and i made money too. never really figured it out though.
bf wise i mean.

[Chuck White]

I just didn't figure sawing like that, that it would be fair to the customer (a repeat customer) to charge by the board foot!

Can't you pick a board foot rate that would be fair?

On a 10' finished cabin log, the figure would be 40 board feet.
In this area sawyers don't make the bf rate that some do in other parts of the country.
For example, my rate is 15¢/bf.  Even at that, a 10' log would cost the customer $6.00.
It just doesn't seem fair to charge bf rate when making just 3 cuts and the log is done.
The customer is providing off-bearers, 3 to be exact.
All I will be doing is going back-and-forth!  There will be 200 logs in this job, 8, 10 &12 footers, average being 10'.

[terrifictimbersllc]

What I was asking is why can't you just change your price per b.f. (I take it you would lower it), to get a price for the job you would consider fair.  This way you could still be charging by volume.  Not recommending that you do it just a question.  I suppose you might not want to have a different price per b.f. getting around if that's the way you always charge. However it is a type of a custom quote and can't do whatever suits your purpose which includes fairness and customer perception?

[DanG]

If you really want to charge by volume, you could just figure out a linear foot price for the cabin logs, then charge your normal rate for any side lumber.