My First Lucas Project, Southern Red Oak

[sgschwend]

As I read the more recent responses the question came to mind:
Does it matter which cut is made first?

It would seem the horizontal cut done first would work better.  Do I have that right?



I must admit I am a little surprised about the recommendation for horizontal cutting to be a half depth cut.  But I do understand that the vertical cut is always going to be better.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

James With Tc tips the price you pay for having such a hard wearing compond in use is that its brittle on a magnified level im talking on many 000s of an inch what happens is when you sharpen it it gives you a clean fresh edge  with no chips or imperfections on the extreme tip of the saw which through use wears down and chips away that fine edge startin to round  it off you cant see it happening but it starts as soon as you start putting friction through sawing against that working edge  ;)

the trick is to sharpen early and often as i say and keep the saw running at peak prefomance and only takes afew min to do properly  ;) it also saves doing a heavy grind to bring the edge back up to scratch  ;) i usually sharpen at around the 400bft mark on lucas baldes there is alot of variables to consider how dirty the wood is wether its hardwood or softwood and how many pases you are doing ie if you are sawing 6x1" you will saw less bft per sharpen than sawing say 8x3"s you get a feel for all of these things overtime and learn how to read the info that your mill is giving you if it feels like its working progresivly harder in the same large log things like that Mate

and if you ran you finger across the edge of my saws there would be afair bit of the red stuff and ive got myself realy good afew times over the years too ;) :D :D

another thing ill throw in there is never work a saw with less than three full teeth .  ill only work a saw with 1 missing and maby another one with a nick or chunk out of one corner if i have to. but once i have more than that missing I put a fresh saw on and depending on how worn the tc tips are ill either replace the two or fully retip the saw  Mate

You can restrict the side to side rock your talking about by making sure that you have the brace/stay bars solidly peged into the ground and once you have the mill fully setup i usually undo the lock nut on the brace slide and lean against the vertical winch post do it back up till the mill is reasonably firm on each end which has always worked for me  ;). you dont have to go overboard though   :D ;)

Ive said it here a while back that its just being plain abusive to your saw pushing it to do a full depth horizontal cut  ;)
Double pass on wide horizontal cuts is the only way to go Imho on any swinger and have used it since i did the Cert in Small scale sawmilling with Ian back in 99 he's the one that showed me its quicker and easier on your machine  ;) ;D 8)

it also pays to carry a couple of long thin wood wedges and place them between just past center to 2/3rds the way along your log from the start of the cut so the weight of the timber lifts the tail end up of the saw so it does not pinch as the saw exits the cut i use this on any full depth timber over 4" wide  ;) mine are long enough that they stick out of my back pocket so they are easy to grab too Mate  ;)

With bounce in the vertical cut  when your sawing with the standard length mills upto 6 meter or 20' cut you dont need the center support they come into play for the ext kits wether that be for the 2 meter 7'  or longer span with the ext on 6 or 8 meter tracks when your still using just the two winch frames  ;)

The bounce usually gets initiated by overfeeding, missing teeth or a combo of the two  ;) you have to vary your feed speed to suit the conditions like large knots hard timbers and the like  if you do start to get alittle bounce either slow your feed down or stop then start very slow and pick up steady asif your starting in a cut ;)

I took it that the 1/16th Carl/Weisboy was refering to was the step angle which is side to side not front to back  ;) that i took the simple route trying to explain it too simply mayby these things happen  ;) :D with your forward plane of front to back you want it level like Ian said  ;) as
with all saws they like sawing in the line of least resistance so if you put undue forces on them any way they will try to cut their way out of it and its allways better to have your saw workng for you not against you  ;)

Ill also have to get my butt into gear and whack acouple of clips on youtube finnaly too mate as i know theres acouple of you's waitng for the retipping one from me and i have 4 saws to do in the shed atm  ;)

Regards Chris  

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Steve which cut comes first depends on wether your sawing on your own and which end you want your stacker at while sawing I do the vertical first when im doing both as i can remove the timber myself without walking around the mill and if i have someone with me and they are going to slow or slacking off I can give them a hurry up by either flicking the piece out the end of the mill if their not in the way or on the ground so it dose not slow me down too much waitng on someone  ???   :  the Sawyer sets the pace around here not the help  Mate  ;) :D ;D I also think its alot safer to have the help behind you and the saw head at all times  ;)

All Saws run better in a vertical plane gravity's a pita but its allways gonna be there Mate  ;)

Regards Chris

[brdmkr]

Ian,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the tip regarding squaring the sharpener.  I have been truying to adjust mine based on the tooth.  I had never considered the approach with a square!

[ljmathias]

James: I think you can count yourself an experienced sawyer now- not only have you built one, but you've learned a lot about using one as well.  Great story and really glad to hear about your progress.  Good to see youngsters making headway in the school of hard knocks and hardwood- tough place to graduate from, usually when you give up the ghost completely.

So what comes next?  Cutting a 50" SYP?  maybe some white oak?  how about a 40" pecan that's about half dried out and beautifully spalted?  (I have to say, doing that one on my WM LT40 was just plain fun- I didn't even charge myself for doing the sawing, although I would like to get some furniture built for the wife, so I guess I'll be asking for some of the air dried lumber back, but I might just refuse, who knows?).

Lj

[fishpharmer]

Chris, I always appreciate your helpfulness, thanks. 

Clear something up for me if you don't mind, when sawing alone, you reverse the procedure I used in my video?  So that when a board is produced you can tail it toward the opposite end of where the saw carriage rests?   Not sure if my question makes sense.  Maybe I should ask like this, you make the vertical cut first by pulling the carriage from the handle side?  Then push it back, make the horizontal cut?  The remaining board comes off the opposite end shown in my video? 

Steve, does Brand X recommend full depth horizontal cuts?  Have you had a chance to mill with it yet?

Brdmkr, I am going to sharpen a blade for the first time next chance I get..

Lon, thanks for the vote of confidence, all the members on forestry forum have contributed to my climb to sawyerdom. 

Next, hmmm, good question, soon it will be the huge white oak that inspired my bandmill build (hope its not rotten), then I have a real healthy storm downed red oak.  I haven't located a fifty inch SYP, but I am looking ;) 8) 8)  Too many projects and too little time.

[Jasperfield]

When I saw the first photo of the log, I thought...this ain't gonna go good. But, by golly it did.

I'll admit I have a low threshold of fascination, but that was impressive. A better demo than I've seen Lucas do at any show.

[fishpharmer]

Thanks Jasper.  It was amateur day for sure.

[Ian]

It's me again

When should I sharpen the saw is a lot like asking how long is a piece of string. There are a lot of things that will tell you the when the saw is blunt, e.g. sound, effort to push and pull the saw through the log and under and oversize boards this includes cuts that will not match up. I tend to work on sound and feel, every hour or two might work as a guide. I wouldn't set this in concrete as every log is different I've cut big, dry old logs and had to sharpen three times to cut the one log.

Before you sharpen your saw you should clean any residue of the tooth face. This will help keep the diamond wheel clean and reduce how often you need to clean the diamond wheel. Fit the grinder and make sure that the tooth is sitting flat on the wheel, if it's not flat undo the wing on the long bolt and wind the bolt in or out to adjust. When you start grinding you will notice dark shadow line or dull silver line between the diamond wheel and the tooth, you need grind the tooth until you have removed dark shadow / dull silver line, and are left with a clean intersect between the diamond wheel and the tooth. When grinding you also need to keep the grinder moving left to right across the tooth don't hold the grinder in one spot.

James if you sharpen your saw blade and start doing your horizontal cuts in two passes, I would be very surprised if you need to touch the alignments.

The lead on the right hand side of the saw blade, which leaves the step on the log helps with sawdust clearance. In the left to right direction there is no wood that the left hand side of the saw blade can come in contact with. If you lower the leading edge, then you are going to raise the tailing edge of the saw blade. This is going to increase the saw kerf, reduce the available horse power and create friction and friction makes heat.

In the vertical cut your feed speed was somewhat slow even on that angle you should be pulling through the log; just letting the saw fall through the log will increase the likely hood of bounce. Next time you set up your mill, (if you can) bring the end frames in from the ends of the tracks by about 12 to 18 inches this will take out a lot of the bounce. This is how I setup whenever possible, I tend not to used the mid stay and hardly ever see horizontal/vertical bounce.     
   
The water is there to keep the saw blade clean. If there is any type of residue building up on the saw blade turn the water on enough to keep the blade clean. Running the water flat out is fine just means you might end up wet and in need of more water.

Which cut first is up to you; I always do vertical first horizontal second as Chris said , if you are cutting on your own it's faster ,if someone is tailing out and they need help you just have to turnaround and lift. If anything is ever picked up by the saw blade in the horizontal position the discharge area can be anywhere out the front, so unless you think your mate is sleeping with your misses, it might be safer to have them tailing out from behind. I think most people do horizontal first to stop the board sitting on the saw blade, with the riving knife fitted you should be able to cut most sizes with out the board sitting on the blade. When cutting boards over lets say 8x3 you might need to tap a wedge in about 2/3 of the way up the log to lift the board up.

Hope this helps 

[DanG]

Hello Ian, and welcome to the forum.  Are you perhaps the gentleman that some of us met at Moultrie, Ga a couple of years ago?

[sgschwend]

Sorry for the slow response.  I was just finishing the power feed and thought I would answer after testing it on a log.

Jay of Brand X on cutting (this is obviously what I think I remember him saying, Jay is a member here perhaps he will respond). 
The vertical cut is the main cut, it should be the one doing most of the work (hence the deep cutting if possible should be done vertically). 

On full depth horizontal cuts:  they are OK as long as the material is not fighting it.  If a cut seems to be pinching the saw then he recommends shifting the saw out and making a second pass.  In a manual setup he thinks you can feel this issue and the operator can quickly release the carriage brake and move the saw out of the cut a few inches, releasing the pressure on the saw.

My view:
The mill has a built in lap siding maker so to me that means that full depth cutting is to be expected, but that is my interpretation of the hardware, I suppose you could two pass the siding cut too.

I only have four logs of cutting under my belt (not counting the factory training).  Three as a manual mill, one as a power fed mill.  The power feed is very nice.  ;D

[weisyboy]

i know on a lucas you can do a full depth verticle cut.

in pine and other soft woods i can do a full width horizontal.

in hardwoods i can do up to a 6" cut but sometimes a 3" pulls it up, like in dry old box.

lucas recommend doing no more than a 4" cut at a time on an 8" mill.

[sigidi]

Finally got internet back again  8)

Great job on ya first Lucas outing.

A few things I saw;

Setup ; tailing to the trailer (as mentioned) lining it up with the mill would have made it much easier on your tailer, also minimises any chance of smacking the mill with timber.

If you had managed to roll the log maybe another half turn, she would have sat much flatter and given you more level rails to play with. Having said this, as I work on my own so much, I deliberately try to get  my rails set up like yours. I do this so the saw can 'self-feed' while I am tailing the previous board.

Tailing ; you can tail from either end, there really isn't much difference only in if you do the vertical cut first or second. If you tail from behind you (as the operator) then you do the vertical cut first then horizontal. If you tail from in front of the operator, horizontal first then vertical second. As mentioned I like the first method this means I can tail myself as and when needed without having to stop, also can help the tailer straight away if it's a big beam or heavy stick.

Blade sharpening ; I tend to sharpen at the end of each bottle of water, I have the tap at 45 deg while sawing and religiously turn it off when not sawing. Although as Ian said, to begin with that is ok as a general guideline, but it does depend on how the saw is performing. If you sawed for 6 hours, I'd say you needed 1 probably 2 sharpens.

Horizontal cutting : always take two bites on cuts bigger than half your saws capacity. I did do 4" boards in one bite with mine for a long time and it'll tell you when you need to re-sharpen. With Bo Derek, I'll do two bites for boards over 5" as mentioned it's easier on the motor and mill, gives a better, constant board and comes out the same speed if not quicker.

Bouncing ; get hold of a mid-span support leg, they are terrific. You can have one made up (or make it yourself) but they are already made to order and perfect from Lucas/Baileys. that will take care of any horizontal 'bounce' for vertical bounce I found 6" deep cuts with Larry (the 6-18) was much worse if I fed too quick or the blade was blunt (as Chris mentioned) I'm spoiled with Bo Derek as I have the anti-bounce strut and it is too bloody easy - such a simple design, quick to adjust to any depth and very effective. Maybe think about getting one to fit to your mill?

Shifting the power head; until I got the side shift winder onto Larry, I used to use my knees/thighs to assist in shifting the head along, but have to admit, if you upgrade anything on your mill, do this winder first!!! Now I've had chance to use the mills with and without, I'll never go back to using a mill without one. Again it's simple but amazingly effective.

With being offline for so long, I feel I've only really repeated what many others have said, but experience is the big tip and it looks like you got a good amount of that 8) as for how long it took - old African proverb, you eat an elephant one bite at a time - well done mate ;)