The best equipment to process rough lumber???

Whitetail_Addict · January 17, 2011, 08:46:54 PM

I've been busy sawing lumber with my portable mill and now I've got stacks of it in the garage, the barn, the other barn, some in a portable carport shelter and some in my basement. So now I need to process it into something useable. I have a table saw and a portable 12" Makita planer that I've been using to rip a straight edge and plane the boards. The Makita does a nice job with the White Pine, Poplar, Cherry, Red Maple, etc. But.... the Hard Maple, Ash and Beech really seems to be beyond its capabilities. So I've been looking at purchasing some new equipment rugged enough to handle the rough sawn lumber. I don't need any large commercial-type stuff but I don't want any cheap toys either. I have narrowed down my searching to the Woodmaster 18" Planer/Moulder and the 15" Shop Fox planer and 3HP Shop Fox Shaper. I would like to be able to make my own moulding, paneling and hardwood flooring.

Does anyone have any personal experience with the equipment?
Which setup is better - the Woodmaster or the Shaper and Planer?

For the Woodmaster with the dual router setup for T&G flooring I'm looking at $4500.
The 3HP Shaper is about $1000 and the 3HP Planer is about $1100.

What do you guys think is my best option?

Buck · January 17, 2011, 11:14:11 PM

I had the same question to a guy who was doing turnkey flooring jobs. I told him I was looking at woodmaster. He felt very strongly toward his shop fox equipment. just .02

redbeard · January 17, 2011, 11:29:26 PM

I have a 3hp delta unisaw, 3 hp delta shaper and a 20" grizzly planner with sharp bits and blades its still a major work out making up 1000 lf of tongue n groove flooring or paneling. Everytime i start a project i start swearing this is the last one i'am buying a 3 or 4 sided planner moulder. I like the woodmaster because its USA and its from same company as my mill, For some more money the logosol planner moulder looks good also.

Larry · January 18, 2011, 10:05:33 AM

Quote from: Whitetail_Addict on January 17, 2011, 08:46:54 PM
For the Woodmaster with the dual router setup for T&G flooring I'm looking at $4500.
The 3HP Shaper is about $1000 and the 3HP Planer is about $1100.

Don't forget to add in a power feeder for another $500 to $1,000.

Quote from: Whitetail_Addict on January 17, 2011, 08:46:54 PM
What do you guys think is my best option?

Buy one of each. ;D

Each approach has it's advantage's. Just to confuse the issue a bit, Williams & Hussey make a excellent small shop moulder...and it has been cloned by Grizzly.

Whitetail_Addict · January 18, 2011, 03:45:40 PM

Ahhh yes the power feeder. How can those little things be SOOOO expensive?!! So that puts the 3HP Shop Fox 15" planer and 3HP Shop Fox Shaper w/ power feeder up near $3000. Still not close to the $4500 for the Woodmaster setup. So I guess is the Woodmaster really worth $1500 more? Is there something that the Woodmaster can do that the shaper and planer can't that would make it worth spending the extra money? Maybe the Woodmaster would process the moulding and T&G faster than I could make it with the Shaper? I don't know.... That's why I'm asking you guys.

crowder888 · January 18, 2011, 06:09:38 PM

Keep in mind that with the Woodmaster you can cut the back relief, tongue, and groove in 1 pass. I have the Woodmaster setup with the double router and you can crank out a lot of material in not a lot of time. With a shaper set up you will have 2 passes for T&G plus a trip through for the back relief. Thats a lot of handling for 1 piece of finished material.

ALSO the ripsaw is worth its weight in gold. Let's say you have an 8" board that you want to rip into 2 1/2" strips. One pass through the Woodmaster and you can move on to the next board....with a table saw it will take you 3 passes for the same result.

With that said, my vote would be for the Woodmaster. You get 4 machines in 1 piece of equipment (smaller footprint = more space to work) that is built like a tank and will run for as long as you own the machine. You will make up that $1,500 difference in no time at all.

woodmills1 · January 18, 2011, 08:43:02 PM

no one mentioned the jointer for the straight edge.....need one... has to be

after you plane a little how do you get one edge you trust

jointer

many a straight piece here

much was planed on one of the early royobi 10 inch planers

but also had a good cast iron crafstman jointer then

can't really make it straight with out the jointer

crowder888 · January 18, 2011, 09:15:19 PM

You can straightline with the Woodmaster. I believe there is a video on the subject on YouTube

rph816 · January 19, 2011, 12:36:12 PM

I think the WM is the best for rough lumber. I moved from a Makita 2012 to a Grizzly 3 HP 15 inch to a WM 5 HP 18" planer and couldn't be happier. I recently made about 1000 sq ft of hardwood floor, here was my process. plane to thickness (3 passes), joint one straight edge (1-2 passes), gangrip blanks to width on WM (1 pass), tongue & groove on 1.5 HP shaper with powerfeed (2 passes), drum sand finish face with WM (1 pass). Notice that's handling every board in the stack 8-9 times, and that's without doing back relief (which I found uneccessary given the width of my flooring). Granted, fewer passes could have been made if I had the router attachments, but I find the shaper to be more versatile and less money. It sounds like a lot of work, but this entire process took me, with some help from my dad, a little more than a week, working evenings and the weekend. If you want to do this for yourself or small scale, the WM is great. If you want to do this small-medium scale for clients, the WM with add-ons or a logosol is probably better. If you want real production, skip to Weinig, leadermac, SCMI or other production machinery. The woodmaster is a jack of all trades but master of none, that said, I love it and it has proved to be a dependable workhorse for my shop... and made in USA. Just my thoughts.

Ryan

Dan_Shade · January 19, 2011, 12:39:48 PM

what is your volume expectation?

and how quickly do you want to get the job done?

Whitetail_Addict · January 19, 2011, 08:35:30 PM

My volume expectation isn't real high but at the same time I don't want to spend forever making the flooring, moulding, etc. I'm not looking for "real production" but handling each piece a dozen or so times doesn't really seem like what I want to do either. I guess if I'm going to spend $4500 on equipment I want it to be able to make me some money on the side as well. The Woodmaster guys go to great lengths with their advertising about how much money you can make with the Woodmaster. I'm sure a lot of that is just advertising but there must be some truth to it as well.

I'm sure the 5HP Woodmaster planer would find it much easier planing the pile of Ash lumber I have as well. My poor Makita needs more passes than I care to count to get 1" rough boards to 3/4" finished. I'll probably keep the Makita for the soft woods though. It does a really nice job on White Pine and Poplar. Besides who knows when it might be handy to have a portable planer.... ;)

Dan_Shade · January 19, 2011, 08:39:16 PM

My preference would be a 4 sided planer if I were going to run any volume.

If I were going to buy a woodmaster, I'd find somebody that has used it to do moulding runs, and check out their operation.

crowder888 · January 19, 2011, 09:55:51 PM

You can give Woodmaster a call and they will give you the name of someone close to you that you could check out. 800-821-6651 is their number

Whitetail_Addict · January 20, 2011, 07:11:52 AM

While on the topic of hardwood flooring can someone tell me about the relief on the bottom side of the boards. Ryan you said that the width of your flooring didn't require the relief to be cut in the boards? What width did you run? What purpose does the relief serve?

beenthere · January 20, 2011, 09:59:03 AM

Relief can be for a number of reasons. Some don't apply to wide flooring, but to the traditional 2 1/4 " commercial flooring strips.

a) can reduce the tendancy to cup over time
b) accomodates some tendancy to rock about the center of the strip
c) placed on the poor side of the strip ("green side up" for the floor layer crews

), and is easy to do with the 5th moulder head used in flooring production

And there may be more "reasons"

laffs · January 20, 2011, 07:07:54 PM

if it were me where you live further south, id shop on sawmill exchange for a used ph260 use it to do what you want then sell it if you dont want to keep it. thats just me. its kind of slow in my oppinion at 26 ftpm but it beats multiple passes.
im not sure if the 260 will take boards down to 3/4 at 26ftpm or if you have to slow the feed rate way down. hopefully someone that has one can let us know.

Eljay · January 21, 2011, 04:08:33 PM

Whitetail

I made all of my flooring out of white ash using a 15" Makita planer and a 2 hp shaper for the T&G. I made random widths from 6 in down to about 3 inches and did not back relieve any of it. Its been down about 10 years and has been stable.By the way, you didn't say anything about drying your wood. Without proper kiln drying, your flooring project will be a disaster if you want tight joints.

Whitetail_Addict · January 21, 2011, 05:30:23 PM

I will definitely dry the lumber prior to installation as flooring... actually I will dry it prior to any planing, shaping, moulding, etc. Ash is a fairly dry wood anyway so I was hoping that meant it would have few defects due to air and kiln drying. I also read somewhere that Ash is a great wood for flooring because it is harder than Red Oak. I have lots of Ash trees on the farm and with the EAB now in my part of New York State I thought I would harvest some Ash trees and make use of them before they die. I also have some Hard Maple that I've sawn, dried and planed. It has lots of character! Which I prefer the bright white color contrasted with the browns to give the wood a very attractive and unique look.

Eljay · January 21, 2011, 07:02:07 PM

Whitetail,

You are definitely correct about ash having few drying defects. I cut mine 7/8" to finish at 3/4" without any problem. It makes very good flooring and trim. I pre-drilled all nailholes. There is no way you can drive a finishing nail into a piece of dried ash. That was before the advent of pnematic nailers. With these, it's not a problem.
I used ash because it is the predominat hardwood species on my wood lot in New Jersey. I thought of sugar maple and red elm but I didn't think I had enough to complete the flooring, trim and doors. Good luck.

Leigh