SWEDISH LOGGER SAW CHOICE(qatanlison)?

[BASIC]

  Merry Christmas.In a recent post qatanlison wrote about the Husky 346XP being the choice of loggers in Sweden.I was wondering why Swedish loogers might tend to choose a smaller saw compared to U.S./Canadian loggers?Are the trees there cutting smaller than in North America?Soft or hard wood?Does the rest of Scandinavian loggers also use smaller saws?What saw is used by commercial firewood cutters?Thankyou for any information you can provide,BASIC.

[SasquatchMan]

As far as I can tell, the scandis tend to cut with a smaller bar - they are more fond of plunge and bore techniques as opposed to the North American ideal of cutting everything down in one swoop with a 066 sporting a 36" bar.

It is also possible that the trees in that part of the world don't grow real thick in the trunk like some in North America - it takes a hell of an old tree for a lodgepole pine to be more than 30" in diameter, which our friend qatanlison would cut down with a 16" bar unless I am mistaken.

[qatanlison]

Merry Christmas to all of you!

If the fir and spruce in the woods are logged at the age of say 100 years. They are about 90' tall and ca.30" in diameter and these are considered big trees. The normal fir and spruce are about 75' tal and 18-20" in diameter. The typical Swedish logger carry a Husky 346XPG (or equal Stihl) and a 13" bar for trees up to 35". The main reason for the "short" bar are because of the agility when limbing spruce - and spruce are the most common. There are a trend though, in certain training and forest-education schools using 18" bars to more easily align those bigger cuts in old trees - but when your training is done most fallers go for the 13" or 15" bar.
Note though, manual falling with saws are not very common anymore thanks to the harvesters...

As a tree-faller I carry bars from 13" on my 351 to 28" on my 385XPG.

Hope this was the info you wanted - otherwise just ask

[qatanlison]

BASIC, the homeowner cutting firewood does it with a small partner in the 45cc range or some electric...
Comercial fire-wood cutters are rare as those who use wood for warming use pellets, so there really is not much of a market for firewood. Most wood is for the paper-industry.


/Ola

[slowzuki]

In eastern Canada, most pros have about a 55 cc saw with a 16" bar.  Most of our forest is on its 3rd cut since being settled.  Not much big stuff around.

[BASIC]

   Thankyou both,you've answered my question.I understand theres a U.S. based logging training group Game of Logging started by Soren Eriksson that teaches "Swedish"logging.I read a good book "The Good Woodcutter's Guide"by Dave Johnson who logs this way in Wisconsin.Do Norwegian and Finnish loggers use this method also?Any othe differences that you can think of?Again I hope you all have a Merry Christmas,Ron K.

[Oregon_Rob]

What you guys are describing sure makes more sens than the local guys around here. I would say the most common bar size around here is 32" even the guys limbing and brushing use the 32's on 372' and 046's. They say they better reach. I think they just like to develop their backs and fore arms.

[BASIC]

   Do you think the "Swedish"choice in saws would be the same if they were cutting hardwood?BASIC

[qatanlison]

There's no difference in bar-length choices for cutting hard-wood; I'd say I use the shortest bar possible to get the job done, and I feel I get that job done the quickest and safest with a short one. Not to mention filing-times when sharpening.
If I'm faced with falling a beech or an oak at a 40"+ diameter, I'd probably fall it with my 28" and then continue limbing it with the 13". The right tool for every type of work.
There's a swedish saying: "What you don't have in your pants, you have on your saw..." (Or in your garage)  ;)

If you've never tried working with a 13" bar on a small saw, give it a chance - makes the work so much more easy for your hands and back - and most of the work you face in the wood can be done with it.

/Ola

[Mark M]

Back in 1972 I was in high school in MN and we had a pulpwood production class where we spent the morning in the woods. We had a fella from Sweden (sponsored by Jonsreds) who came to the school and gave us a demonstration using what I remember being called the "workbench method" for cutting black spruce. He fell the trees toward the middle of what would become a road then limbed it leaving the branches to help support equipment . He then rolled the trees off to the side, bucked them, and pilled about 2-3 feet high at the side of the road building support piles. Next he cut a tree that went across the piles of logs on each side of the road and this was the workbench. Trees were then dropped on the workbench, limbed, and then rolled off to the sides where they were bucked and added to the growing (in length) pile. It was really a slick method because you could cut and move the log manually without any equipment. Later we used a prehauler to load the 8 foot logs and haul them to the landing. Anyone else ever here of this fellow? I wonder if he was that same Swede?

Mark

[Gus]

 I cut pulpwood for a good number of years and always used a 16" bar. More manueverability and less down time sharpening.
gus

[Oregon_Rob]

Back in 1972 I was in high school in MN and we had a pulpwood production class where we spent the morning in the woods. We had a fella from Sweden (sponsored by Jonsreds) who came to the school and gave us a demonstration using what I remember being called the "workbench method" for cutting black spruce. He fell the trees toward the middle of what would become a road then limbed it leaving the branches to help support equipment . He then rolled the trees off to the side, bucked them, and pilled about 2-3 feet high at the side of the road building support piles. Next he cut a tree that went across the piles of logs on each side of the road and this was the workbench. Trees were then dropped on the workbench, limbed, and then rolled off to the sides where they were bucked and added to the growing (in length) pile. It was really a slick method because you could cut and move the log manually without any equipment. Later we used a prehauler to load the 8 foot logs and haul them to the landing. Anyone else ever here of this fellow? I wonder if he was that same Swede?

Mark

 :P
Interesting technique. Definitely the kind of thing that makes sense, especially for small time guys. A little fore thought can go a long ways in reducing the effort required to get a job done. Stuff like that is great to stick in the back of my mind for later use.
 8)

[logbutcher]

The "Game of Logging" (GOL) is a competitive, athletic, safety and production experience based approach to logging. It is used here (northern Maine) as the core of the Certified Professional Loggers' (CPL) program.
Tho not a pro, I do cut our woodlot for management, sawlogs, firewood for us. The 3 day GOL class is tough, humbling for anyone using a chainsaw. Look up the competitions in your region and available programs. It changed my approach completely.  In brief: use complete safety gear (PPE), use techniques for felling that maximize the sale and your body, keep the chain dead sharp, use (in the east at least) smaller bars 16"-18". Bore and plunge back cuts with open faces are the rule. It works.
The Swedes have got something here.Besides, it's easier cutting.

[BASIC]

    Happy New Year.Are there limitations in this technique?Thanks,BASIC.

[Bobcat_pa]

Logbutcher:   you are very correct -- a lot more folks should sign up for the "game of logging" classes.   Your description is good because that is how I would describe the GOL classes I attended.    As a farm kid, I did a lot of chain saw work, then went to college, and then got tied up in my own business for 30+ years.   GOL was definitely a skill refresher & builder, but I think the real primary objective is SAFETY, and MORE SAFETY.   Thanks to our instructor (Dan Hartranft),  I find myself going through the "check list" all the time.   If any of you have an opportunity to attend these classes, it is well worth your time and the few dollars.   In addition, you meet other people with common interest.    bob    

[logbutcher]

Bobcat et al:  The closer for the Game of Logging classes was when the instructor took a set of well-worn chaps --"they've worked on me  for 8 years without a problem," one of the crusty loggers said--  laid them on a 24" log and sawed through them in a second. Eye-opener.
After the day's class, I sent for a new set of chaps.
And "drop starts", never. How many of us use the chain brake in working ? Starting, taking a step or moving, putting the saw down. I never did.

[Oregon_Rob]

What you guys are describing sure makes more sens than the local guys around here. I would say the most common bar size around here is 32" even the guys limbing and brushing use the 32's on 372' and 046's. They say they better reach. I think they just like to develop their backs and fore arms.

Hey Look i'm quoting myself 8)
I was out doing some cutting/felling this weekend and realized something about why the guys around here might like the longer bars. I was planning on bringing down a maple that was near the top of a slope. On one side there was flat ground and the back side was steep. Anyway this one tree had three good sized trunks ~18-24" coming from one large stump at about 30" high, from the flat ground side.
I had my 20" bar on the 372 and had no problem dropping the first one, but decided it would be much easier to do the other two  with my longer bar, which I didn't have with me. I will go back later with the longer bar and complete the job. The exta 12" of reach will really make a difference. There is just no good way to get to the back side of the logs, with both in place, except to have a longer bar, or try to work at some contorted angle or over my head on a steep slope. neither appeal to me.
Also working on mid sized trees with some of the center rotted out, i feel better with a longer bar.
Our woods tend to be very steep and have a lot of brush, so having more reach makes some sense.

Just some ramblings of a novice in the woods.