Identify species of lumber by grading stamp?

[nowwhatnapster]

I was hoping someone here might be able to help me identified the species of wood here based on the grading stamps.

The wood is in my home. A ranch built in 1950 in Connecticut (50 miles outside NYC). I have sent an email to the two bureau's that stamped this lumber, but I don't have high hopes that they will know the species.

  

  

  

 

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum

How about some more distant pics showing the material that has the stamps.

Species id is likely possible with a good clear pic of the end grain taken on a sharp, clean cut.  Is that a possibility?

My initial thought is these are not 1950 stamps, but on some remodeling work or additions to the 1950's structure. And the species, other than likely west coast species, is not indicated by the stamps. The mills are and may be located by a google search, if lucky.


WCLB is West Coast Lumber Inspection Bureau and the PLIB is the Pacific Lumber Inspection Bureau, which are the two you likely wrote to or emailed.

WEBCO lumber company is located in Grants Pass, OR

[nowwhatnapster]

I can assure you those stamps are between 1950 and 1954. I bought the house from the original owner last year. They did not change anything in this house except paint and they covered up the hardwood floors with some shag carpet in the 70's. Original boiler, no dishwasher, you get the idea.

The stamps are on the floor joists, 2x10"s that are about 14' in length and a couple of 20' ones.

I'll see if I can trim one of the ends and snap a photo tomorrow.  I did dig up some dirt on the stebco mill because it did not pay its taxes on some floating logs. :-) Unfortunately, it did not allure to the species just the location. http://or.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19500829_0040035.OR.htm/qx

[beenthere]

I can live with that assumption. ;)

Are you just curious about the species of the 2x10's, or something else involved?

A lot of good wood id'ers on the Forum so some good clear pics of the end grain will help.

[Happycamper]

Looks much like Douglas Fir.
                          Jim

 

[nowwhatnapster]

I am trying to determine the deflection of the floor joists. IF the joists are Douglas Fir (and we already know they are grade no. 1) then I can likely lay tile upstairs without altering anything. IF it's not Douglas Fir then I will likely need to sister the joists or do that thing where you put a 2x4 on the bottom to make a T beam. Either way it is a lot of work I would like to avoid if possible.

I did not get a chance to make a clean cut on the end grain of a joist, but I did snap some new photos. While reviewing the photos I noticed there is a "F" in a circle stamped on the end grain of a joist. Not sure what it means.



  

  

  

  

 

[Alyeska Pete]

Douglas Fir.

[Ianab]

Douglas Fir would be my first guess too, and that fits in with Beenthere's locations in Oregon and the Pacific coast being the original source of the wood.

Ian

[beenthere]

I agree with the D. Fir as well. Larch was put in with D.Fir as well, but think it stress grades about the same.

[nowwhatnapster]

Thank you all for the input. The organizations behind those stamps were unable to give me a certain answer but this is the response i got from PLIB:

Unfortunately, we don't have enough detail in the records from the 1950's to give you any more information.  There is a possibility the wood is either from Longview, WA or Vancouver, BC, but the records aren't detailed enough for us to determine which.  I do believe the lumber is Douglas fir judging by the photo if the color and grain are representative, and by the location of the mills that had that number.

Based on my findings thus far,I think its a safe guess to say it is Douglas fir. The real test will be when the tile goes down.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

It is interesting that a West Coast species ended up in New England.  The reason this happened was that the RRs needed back hauls, so there were special tariffs established that made shipping costs almost zero.  On the other hand, shipments from the South to North were not under such a tarrif, so the South could not compete with the  West Coast, costwise.  New England had been logged the previous century, so it had no substantial commercial forests ready fpr harvest and small diameter sawmills were not present.  Also, SYP was heavier and harder to nail.

In the West, there were two main species that would have been stamped No.1.  They are Douglas-fir and western hemlock with some true fir mixed in.  DF dominated this market.  Ponderosa pine was also very big but seldom was in large thick pieces, but was 4/4 for trim, windows, etc.  Again, the shipping costs made it practical to use ponderosa pine in Iowa and states to the east.  By 1920, the supply of eastern white pine in WI and MN was gone, so there was no local species to compete in the Midwest or East.

We did not have a national grading rule, so each mill or association (WCLB) had its own rules. 

As many people liked DF, and knew it was superior in many ways, it was not uncommon to have western mills sawing hem-fir to stain the wood with a reddish dye so it looked like DF.  I even saw this with syp in Virginia in the 1970s still.

So, I would go with DF.  If you send me a small piece (2" cube), I can conform DF if it is really important.  No charge.

[nowwhatnapster]

Hi Gene,

Thanks for explaining the history. Quite fascinating. It did seem a bit strange that the wood came from the west coast.

I took a look around my basement to see if there was a joist I could chop up without hurting the structure. I noticed there were a few joists that overlapped the center beam by about 16". I read somewhere that it is best practice to limit the joist over hang "cantilever?" on a center beam to about 1ft. This will reduce the chance of a scissor effect where the overlapped joists flex in opposite directions, loosening fasteners and leading to squeaks.

Long story short I have a 4x2" sample and some more photos. I counted about 70 unique rings on that chunk. This was from a joist with "24 PLIB No. 1" stamped on it.

Gene, If you don't mind, I'll take you up on the offer to confirm the species. I will sleep better at night knowing I didn't cut any corners on my home. I have sent you a private message.



  

  

  

 

[WDH]

The true firs and hemlock do not have resin canals.  Douglas fir does.  You might not know what a resin canal looks like, but a close up of a clean (razor blade) slice of the end grain will reveal if they are there or not.  Your pics are not definitive.

It might just be easier to send Dr. Gene a sample.  What you have sure looks like douglas fir to me, and I would proceed with the project. 

[EZland]

I was a framer in the northeast, New Hampshire n the 80's and even then DF was reasonable.  Especaily for 2x12 and wider.  We used it extensively for floors and beams. I agree with all its DF.   We could clear DF for framing less than the cost of the Pine.  ALso the strenght was best than White Pine too, I think.  I did rember that the DF was brittle if not nailed or handled correctly.  It would splinter under a blow of a 24 oz if not careful. 

It was almost the point anything that was needed 2x14 or greater you ordred DF. 

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

The original poster sent me a small sample and it is indeed Douglas-fir.  As soon as I smelled it, I knew without even looking--DF has a rather distinctive aroma (smells like money).  Then under magnification, I confirmed it was DF.

It had about 35 rings per inch...really slow grown, so it is probably not coastal DF but inland DF.

[mesquite buckeye]

I was going to say, one slooooww growing tree. Must have been pretty old when cut down.  ;D

[WDH]

Douglas fir always smelled like plywood to me  :D.  That was when the only plywood that you could get was douglas fir before the SYP plywood became common. 

[nowwhatnapster]

Gene,

Thank you again for your time and expertise. That is great news as I do not need to make any structural enhancements to be able to proceed with installing tile.

They don't make the tree's like the used to :-). I'll have to take some photos of the mantle in my house. Its pine of some sort, very tight growth rings. Need a magnifying glass to have any hope in counting them.