Hydraulic Pump Motor Again

Magicman · August 16, 2013, 06:21:14 PM

Eighteen months ago I had both of my hydraulic pump motors rebuilt. Since the Monarch brush rack assemblies were not available at the time, my motor shop did some fabricating. Well, one of them failed today.

It's the down time that hurts more than the motor/pump cost, and I can not stand any more lost time. A new motor/pump is on the way from WM. I will dig into the old motor when I have time and then have it as a spare.

The WM rep said that they were working with a supplier and maybe a source for the Monarch brush rack assemblies will be available soon, but not soon enough for me. :-\

JustinW_NZ · August 16, 2013, 06:24:05 PM

That's a bummer about the downtime, and yes I know what you mean!

Could be good now they are finding another source for the old units (its what I have also)

Cheers
Justin

POSTON WIDEHEAD · August 16, 2013, 06:56:05 PM

When it rains it pours MAGIC.....take the wife out for a day.

hackberry jake · August 16, 2013, 07:48:24 PM

Cant you still saw with just one pump? Just slower if I remember right.

Magicman · August 16, 2013, 08:00:52 PM

Took her out last night. It was Marty's 45th Birthday but we ate too.

I have a 60 log, 127 mile away road trip sawing job scheduled beginning on Thursday of next week, so the sawmill has to be up and running. The folks with these 1-2 day jobs say that they understand, but I imagine that they are running out of patience. :-\

Yes Jake, but you have to squeeze the hose together that connects the two pumps to keep the pump that is running from overflowing the non-running pump. This is the same thing if one of the solenoid switches quit operating. Problem is the hose is underneath the pumps so everything has to be torn out just to do that.

I'll just wait. If the new pump got out today it will get here Tuesday. If not it will be Wednesday.

redprospector · August 16, 2013, 09:43:53 PM

Quote from: Magicman on August 16, 2013, 08:00:52 PM

I have a 60 log, 127 mile away road trip sawing job scheduled beginning on Thursday of next week, so the sawmill has to be up and running. The folks with these 1-2 day jobs say that they understand, but I imagine that they are running out of patience. :-\

I feel your pain. I've been swapping engines in one of my tracked machines. Took out an oil cooled Deutz, and put in a liquid cooled Yanmar. Pretty much had to re-invent the wheel...er...track...er...whatever it was that I re-invented. I also had to replace a triple gear pump while I was in there. $3500.00, OUCH.
Some of my 1 and 2 acre customers are getting wrestles.

Andy

Magicman · August 16, 2013, 10:18:57 PM

I looked at FedEx and my pump shipped today so it should be here in plenty of time. I also talked with my Thursday's customer so he is on board with my activities.

terrifictimbersllc · August 17, 2013, 04:41:31 AM

I had one of the Monarch pumps in my LT-40 Super, fail in March. Since both pumps were worn, I took them to an electric shop, which only had one set of suitable (so they said) brushes, the order for another set would take 10 days. So I took the second motor to a starter/alternator shop, and I'm glad I did. Both got repaired with brushes, armature turning and new bearings. The starter guy charged me $80, the electric shop $190. Side by side working, 4 months later, one fails. Guess which. The $190 job. So I took it to the starter guy, who said they used starter brushes instead of conventional electric motor brushes. The brushes the electric shop used were copper colored and worn out in only 4 months. The starter guy used electric motor brushes which are nearly black.

Anyway now I have a new Iskra motor side by side with the Monarch motor rebuilt by the starter guy in March, with a backup Monarch newly repaired by the starter guy in July. Hoping I'm set for a while.

Anybody in my area need a great motor repair shop, PM me and I'll refer you.

Magicman · August 17, 2013, 08:09:45 AM

Your experience sounded some like mine except that I only used one shop. LINK

It will be good if WM can supply the proper "brush rack assemblies" for the Monarch motor/pumps. Also your and my experiences will certainly help others when their pump motors fail.

A couple of times Wednesday when I was finishing a job, I noticed that the log clamp seemed to move slower. The pump motor was failing then. Yesterday it quit completely and started pouring fluid.

rmack · August 17, 2013, 08:22:51 AM

Battling gremlins sure can be frustrating.

btw, would my 2012 LT40Super have those same pumps?

Bibbyman · August 17, 2013, 08:35:54 AM

On our 2002 mill we had a motor go out at under 2000 hours. I took it to a motor shop that was always overran with work. But they did good work cheap. It took most of a week to get it back but it was all cleaned up and repainted for $14.00, as I recall. The other motor went out not to long after and they rebuilt it. Then in less than 1000 hours both had to be serviced again. At that rebuild, they guy said they couldn't be rebuilt again without new armatures. That's when we got serious about replacing the pumps with a remote power pack.

Magicman · August 17, 2013, 08:38:44 AM

Quote from: rmack on August 17, 2013, 08:22:51 AMwould my 2012 LT40Super have those same pumps?

No. The Monarch pumps have not been used in years, but Sparks, Marty, or somebody would have to give us the year of the change over.

Satamax · August 17, 2013, 09:55:32 AM

Guys, for quick fix.

May be, and that's a may be. You could use electric/hydraulic steering pumps. I mean, over here in France, we have thoses little renault twingos, which have an hydraulic steering but insteat of being taken from the hyd pump on the engine. The hyd pump is actuated by an electric motor. They go for dead cheap at any wrecker's yard, and there's plenty about.

Then, may be, you could find something similar on a car sold in the us. And make a temporary pump, that you would have as a spare in your spare bits pile, just in case. May be it could be adapted with just a few bits and bobs.

Hth.

Max.

Larry · August 17, 2013, 11:16:25 AM

Finding a good motor shop with reasonable rates is the secret. Baring that, learn to do it yourself. All kinds of online instruction. Actually, that is by far the best way as you will pay more attention to detail than any of the motor shops. Most motors don't require extensive repairs.

This is the last one I did. Mark the end caps so they go back on the same way. Take pictures so you know how it goes back together. Normal cost for bearings, brushes, and other parts is less than $20. This motor was in pretty good condition to begin with.

As tore apart.

Ready for assembly.

BTW this is a AC repulsion induction (RI) motor common in pre WW-ll woodworking machines but it is quite similar to DC motors.

I have learned how to turn the commutator and cut down mica for really wore motors. That does require a lathe. Fabricating manufactured discontinued brushes, and holders can be done with simple tools. It does take time, but I find being somewhat self sufficient a satisfying trait.

ladylake · August 17, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

Larry

What's that motor off of, I think your TK 2000 only has 1electric motor to run the guide roller in and out and it's smaller than that. . Steve

sawmillhand · August 17, 2013, 06:31:44 PM

I might have a lead on the brushes for the monarch motors i am waiting the guy to email me back on it because i also have a older model WM and it has those motors on it so ill past the info on if it checks out.

pineywoods · August 17, 2013, 07:52:40 PM

Larry, that motor looks exactly like the one that powers the pump on my pineywoods hydraulics. I scrounged it off an old truck tire changer.

I had a terrible time finding brushes for it, but finally succeeded. Here's a link to a place that has brushes to fit just about anything. Not cheap, but good service and good products.

www.eurtonelectric.com
They have the brushes to fit the late model wm pump motors.
I just ordered a set of brushes for the starter/generator on a club car golf cart. Order bushes by size measurement and wire configuration..

Larry · August 17, 2013, 08:16:07 PM

Piney, I'm glad to see you're a member of the fix it yourself club.

I was just using that motor for an example of a brushed motor.

Here is that particular motor all assembled.

A 1942 Delta 12" disc sander used quite frequently in my workshop. Makes me feel good using old made in the USA machines.

Back on topic those DC motors are just pretty easy to fix. Many times it just blowing out the dust and crud from the brushes. Put new brushes in and since its opened up new bearings. The parts are cheap.