skidding whole trees-branches left on-softwoods

[Southside]

Tom, nobody is opposed to Larch, Hack, Tamarack or whatever you are growing. That being said you are making claims that have not been proven and this is supported by your own statement that your hybrids are not the same as the species you are referencing. 

Just because a parent has a quality trait does not ensure the offspring will display the same, especially in a hybrid. F1's are wildcats.  It's akin to me breeding one of my top Jerseys to an Angus and expecting the heifer calf to produce the same quality and quantity of milk. It ain't gonna happen. 

[barbender]

Tom, if you are directing that at me- I said

Larch is not as rot resistant as cedar, I think that's pretty well established. Claiming that it is sounds more like marketing than research.
 

because you said

We at larchresearch.com are only too well aware of the limitations of the market for larch.  That is one of our key goals....to make more folks aware of the truly excellent material that is derived from these trees.  Far more valuable than pine....even if the market doesn't know that yet!

That sounds like marketing to me? I'm not trying to slam your words harshly or anything like that. You're claiming that your larch hybrid has "weatherfastness" on par with white cedar. That would make it far different than larch I have experience with. Back it up. Where's the research and citations? I have nothing against any larch, it is woefully underutilized and has a lot of great qualities. If your's has qualities over and above the rest of them, which you are claiming- present the research to back it up. I'm not just taking your word for it. As far as use for pilings, I think that's kind of irrelevant to the use you were proposing for your small diameter stems. Pilings are completely buried. We use tamarack all the time to corduroy woods roads, not to mention a lot of county roads and even state highways that still have corduroy under them. When it's excavated, it's typically in excellent shape, after being in the ground for 100 years or more. If you were proposing selling your larch for corduroy I would've said "it will work great". But when you were talking about selling your small diameter stems as posts, and then proposed that it has decay resistance on par with cedar, I have serious doubts. If you have evidence and research to the contrary, educate me.

[Clark]

Correct, Gary_C, but Euro larch is one of the parents of this species.  Not you, but a couple other members here have slammed my words pretty harshly, I thought, and not accurately either.  Hence my mention of a little city in Italy that has held up pretty well over the course of centuries.....all the while held up on pilings of Euro larch.

That's not real accurate either. My understanding of rot resistance in wood is that conditions that are moist but not saturated are best for rot. Completely saturated conditions actually prolong the life of pilings. (So does completely dry.) There is a degree of rot resistance in larch species and maybe more in the hybrid you are growing (which was not used in Venice), I'm not sure. However, you are unfairly representing the genus with examples that don't actually test the rot resistance of the species.

Clark

[snowstorm]

2 yrs ago i spent 2 days walking all around venice . the only wood i recall seeing in the water were used as channel markers heading to the airport. snice the buildings are built from stone seems unlikely they all have wood holding them up. at one of the ports we stopped at we went on a tour of a coliseum. the guide said a lot of the stone used to build venice was was taken from there 

[snowstorm]

wood dosent rot much in salt water. there are a lot of pillings in the water here in maine. they  used to mostly red oak now a lot are pressure treated

[moodnacreek]

If you are getting a portable band mill wouldn't you get in close to or in the woodlot? Then a 4x4 tractor loader with forks is the machine. Do this cutting from November to early March , both the felling and the sawmilling and do not drop more trees than you can saw before spring. It is a privilege to be able to control when the trees are cut. People have forgotten that fall and winter are the lumber making seasons when there is a choice. You will make the best lumber this way. And if you have to drag anything you want frost and a little snow not dirt or mud.

[mike_belben]

Buy or build a handcart, put lawnmower tires on it for floation.  Lay that down and plop the log tips onto it and ratchet strap the log to the cart.  Now grab the butt with a 3pt hitch or even a boom pool in the reciever of a junky offroad doodlebug truck and head to the landing. Once in a while itll turn over off the skateboard but thats all part of the fun.  Like you said youve got time. 

[wisconsitom]

Appreciate all comments, and much truth in them.

I've been away from this-and all-forums all growing-season long, which is the norm with me.  Get just too dad-blasted busy. Happy to be back now.

In terms of specific goals with my hybrid larch blocks, they have once again grown like mad this year-still are for that matter in this wet, cool weather.  I will indeed need to thin soon.  Butts on some are now 5 and 6 inches...so getting to point of possible usability.  I will very likely just make stuff to use right on-site with this stuff.  One thought I have is some sort of material for some sort of catwalk through the swampier portions of my land.  Then, if it doesn't last so long, it will only affect me!

Thanks all,
tom

[celliott]

They are going to drag way harder with the limbs on, and if they're sawlog sized trees, it won't be long before your big new utv is broken. 

Your original thought of skidding whole tree was to keep logs cleaner for the mill, correct? If it's a small number of logs you'll be milling, maybe pressure wash them first. If ordering a new woodmizer, definitely order the debarker, then the debarker would be eating the dirty bark and saving your bands. 
It just seems an awful hassle to me, to skid like that and limb/top near the mill. Leave all that in the woods IMO.
Winter skidding is also an option, you can pull way more on frozen trails and wood stays clean.

[wisconsitom]

Hi celliot.  In the near-term, say, the next 2 to 3 years, I'll only be dealing with the smallest, most overtopped or crowded material.  These will not initially be anywhere near sawlog size.

I also do not own a mill at this time, and that item may be a ways off.  I just intend to try to make poles and posts initially with this smallish stock, primarily for my own use.  The primary goal is to give the remaining trees more room.

I might add, we routinely trim up lowest branches on all our softwood stock, for better site access, better potential usability of any harvested material by lessening knots, and such.  All the trees I'm talking about had or will have this done.

My understanding of rapidly growing hybrid larch is that stems begin to cease girth increment when tree crowns grow together.  In truth, some sections of my blocks are already at this point...at the 6-year from plug stock mark!  Didn't take long, and we were not quite careful enough when machine-planting with spacing for this ultra-fast grower.  I'm trying to thread the needle of A) getting thinning done on time to help leave trees...while B) having thinned stock of a size that is suitable for something.  A destructive thinning is also a possibility.  Time will tell...and that time is soon.

tom