Home electrical question(s)

[scgargoyle]

Have you checked to make sure your Dad isn't stealing it? :D

[wildbill]

Have you checked to make sure your Dad isn't stealing it? :D

that would be one heck of an extention cord.  he lives 3 miles away

today after work i unwired all but one fixture in the kitchen.  we went from a 2A draw to .3A.  we now have about as much light as a normal kitchen and can no longer do brain surgery. 

we have a newer digital meter that transmits to a truck passing by to get read.  im going to put a note pad and pencil next to the meter (its inside the house) and try to remember to take weekly readings to see if what im doing is helping.

[redprospector]

Long long ago, in a town far far away from where I live now (this is to protect the not so innocent.  :D), in a time when a human being actually read the numbers on a meter and wrote them down by hand.......

I asked my meter reader if he knew of anything that I could do that would lower my electric bill. He said that someone had told him that if you put 5 silver dollars on top of the meter that it would slow the meter down.
Well, sure enough it worked. 5 silver dollars would slow the meter down enough to lower my bill by $20, funny thing though, the silver dollars would disappear every month.  smiley_dizzy  They must have evaporated was my thought.  ;) I was curious so I tried 10 silver dollars, and sure enough my bill dropped another $20. It was pure magic....until one fateful day when my meter reader retired. My bill was devastating that month, I demanded a new meter because I knew something was wrong with mine, because the silver dollars hadn't evaporated that month. I talked to the new meter reader and he told me that I evidently had no real understanding of how an electric meter worked. He said that there is no possible way that stacking silver dollars on a meter could slow it down.  :D Maybe he was right, it's never worked since then.

[wildbill]

 :D

[thecfarm]

wildbill,we have them Smart Meters,as what they are called here in Maine too. Just got one last summer. My bill is high too. The wife called them. They is a site that I registered on so I can see how high my usage is at each hour. Does not tell me what is taking the power,just a graph on each hour. I was working out by the meter years ago. That was still the old style with the round disk that moved. I was looking at it turn real slow,then all at once that wheel was spinning. I thought i was going to have to hang onto the side of the house to keep it from lifting.I went onto the house and asked what the wife was doing. Nothing she said,just washing dishes. Aw,the well pump,220 was doing it.

[whiskers]

A well pump problem can be a real bugger to find sometimes, that is if you have a well.,

A submersible well pump that's worn or damaged runs longer to satisfy the cut off pressure setting .
A cracked pipe or coupling in the line losing water or a check valve failing to seal, same problem.
Bladder tank air pressure must be slightly lower than the cut on contact pressure. Burst bladder will cause pump to cycle each time a tap is opened.
An analog electric alarm clock, plugged into a duplex outlet, wired to the load side of the contacts, will give the pump run time to determine approximate usage.

[wildbill]

no well for me.  we have city water and the garden is watered with reclaimed water straight from the sewage plant i work at

[sandhills]

Sorry wildbill, you can keep your 'maters  :D.  Seriously though, I'd check into the water heater, I had the same trouble a few years ago, the bottom element was covered with sediment and constantly on, do you have plenty of hot water, or run out?

[Raider Bill]

Maybe we should drain the water heater and check that element? If nothing else it will get some of the deposits out.
I should do the one in the office too.

[wildbill]

if i have time after the chicken exodus after work im going to drain and flush it.  also i need to check amperage on both legs, not just one.

if not tonight then it will have to wait until saturday

[ely]

turn off the breaker before you drain the tank...just sayin...

[upsnake]

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Inc-5000-C-TED-Detective/dp/B003C12U3E

A little pricey but.... you can use this to clamp on the wires in the panel and it records usage.
You could start with the clamps on the two main wires and record energy usages. This would help look for times when there is spikes, and maybe find a pattern.

From there you could move the clamp to a certain breaker for more details. You can also get a couple more clamps for it i think.

[wildbill]

those things look neat but you're right.  they are pricey.  ill have to stick with pencil and paper for now.

yesterday i compressed everything into one deep freezer and one normal freezer.  got to unplug the small upright freezer.  that should knock off a buck or two a month

[Rockn H]

Rockn H, I am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think what you said in the last paragraph is correct. Of course I have been wrong on more than one ocassion.

That's OK pigman, I'm used to it. ;)   I probably shouldn't have said "wide open" and of course I'm talking about a well insulated water heater.   Not one that's just setting out on the back porch (as an extreme example).    If you don't use a lot of hot water you won't see the savings either.   If you're single and just jump in and out of the shower for example... it's not gonna help. 

[r.man]

Water heater manufacturers recommend that you drain off a gallon or two of water from the drain on the heater once a year under pressure. For most people this is a waste of time but I know of a few that need to do it. Depends on which group you fall into.

[36 coupe]

Rockn H, I am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think what you said in the last paragraph is correct. Of course I have been wrong on more than one ocassion.

RocknH is dead wrong.180 degrees is a scalding ,burning temperature.Anything over 130 is painful.Forums tend to be full of bum information.Beware...

[Brucer]

A "modern" TV set will draw power even when it is turned off. Same with some computers. Even when they draw very little current, if they are running 24 hours a day that can add up. Try doing some before and after readings with your TV plugged in and then unplugged.

Flourescent lights were intended for continuous use. Turning them on and off frequently will cause them to burn out much sooner then the "life expectancy" shown on the packaging. LED bulbs should not have this problem.

Regarding water heater temperature, some basic thermodynamics: It takes the same amount of energy to heat a certain amount of cold water to your desired shower temperature. Doesn't matter if you store the water at higher temperatures and use less of it -- same amount of energy to heat the water. On the other hand, the higher the temperature in your water heater, the more heat will leak through the insulation. So normally keeping your water temperature high will cost you more.

One exception, though. I'm on a time-of-use metering system. I pay twice as much for my electricity during peak periods as regular customers do, and half as much during the off-peak periods. There is a timer on my water heater that shuts it off during the expensive peak periods. In order to have enough hot water to carry me through the peaks, I keep the temperture up around 75°C (167°F). I use a little more energy this way, but I pay about $300 per year less.

I also have thermal mixing valves on the bathtubs and showers to make sure no one gets scalded.

[36 coupe]

i bought a clamping amp meter to try to pin point where i am using electricity.  I have always had high (in my opinion) power bills in the 9 years i have lived in this house.  I do not have central heat and A/C.  we do have some wall/window shakers but those very rarely get used.  this winter the ceiling fans have all been off.  My air compressor (5hp motor, twin cylinder pump, 100 gallon tank, it uses power) didnt work for about 6 months.  i leave it off when im not in the garage.  the "wood shop" is barely used on week days.  our fridge is less than 5 years old (3 i think).  Deep freeze is less than a year and is 3/4 full.  Mini freezer is 1/2 full but is probably 15 years old.  when the freezers were added to the house Emily says neither really effected the power bill more than a couple dollars.  How many kilowatt hours do you use per month?I use 500 in summer 650 in winter.Cost  is 65 to 90.00 per month.

none of the breakers feel warm at all to the touch. 

first question:  why do i have an average power bill of $180?

Second question:  when the amp clamp is on the main neutral wire inside the breaker box it reads 4.0A.  when i hear the compressor kick on for the mini freezer the reading DROPS to 3.1A.  how am i using 0.9A less when the freezer turns on?

[wildbill]

i have been writing down the meter reading every monday at 8:31pm.  (i already had an 830 alarm) 

so far we have used 140, 141 and 150 kw.  our latest power bill was $109.  I would like to see it under $100 since we have a smaller house with out heat or air conditioning.  I think my next move will be to install one of those solar preheaters for the water heater.

the other option i should just get off my rear end and buy is a grid tie inverter.  i have 6 15W solar panels just sitting  right now.  for a few dollars i can have them feeding into the house.  it is not a lot of power but i can get a grid tie that will allow for future expansion if i get my hands on panels for the right price again. 

[Magicman]

What was the final answer with your existing water heater?

[wildbill]

What was the final answer with your existing water heater?

i kind of keep putting off testing the elements and flushing it out (remodeled half the bathroom past 3 weeks) 

[Rockn H]

RocknH is dead wrong.180 degrees is a scalding ,burning temperature.Anything over 130 is painful.Forums tend to be full of bum information.Beware...

I think y'all may have missed my point.  You don't use straight hot water to take a shower.  My point was when the water temp is turned up, you use VERY LITTLE HOT WATER and more cold water (at the faucet).   You use the faucet to mix the cold and hot water together to get a comfortable temp to shower.   It takes less energy to keep water heated ( if it's a well insulated tank) or to heat up a very little amount of cold water entering the hot water tank vs. heating an entire new cold tank of water after each shower.    I would hope everyone would take information given on a forum as one persons experience or opinion and use it as such.    And I agree forums do tend to be full of bum information... you should research any information for yourself before making a decision.

[Planman1954]

A short story about a high setting on a water heater...
So this past thanksgiving eve, I was sitting in my daughter's house on the living room couch. Just me, my daughter, and my 2 small grand-daughters were in the house at about 8 pm. All of a sudden, I heard my daughter in the kitchen saying..oh no! Then I heard water running. I jumped up, ran into the kitchen and saw steaming water running at the force of a wide open water hose spewing straight out from under her sink! During the first 30 seconds, the steaming water was 1/4" deep. I was barefooted. My feet were being burned by the super hot water. I quickly felt under the sink for the water cutoff valves and shut them both off. I could not see anything because of all the steam. Still there was full blast hot water. I then thought about her water heater, and hoped there was a cutoff on it...there was! I cut off the hot water to the house. With the water off and no steam, I could finally see the problem. The dishwasher pex line connector had come completely off from the water line to the dishwasher. I then took off the connector that had come loose, went to home depot (they were still open) and the fellow said that the fellow that had put the dishwasher in 6 weeks earlier had used a copper pipe connector instead of the pex connector! I bought the right connector, went back and installed it. When I had initially got the water off, it was already 1/2" deep in the kitchen, and when everyone got back, thankfully no major damage to cabinets had occurred due to us acting quickly. That was a bad scene..But, thanksgiving was saved. Long story to say this..She had her water heater set to the MAXIMUM temp. I couldn't believe it! She has small children who could be scalded at ANY faucet in the home. Needless to say, it is now set at 135 d.  It was a STEAM bath in that kitchen for a while...bad deal!

[Ianab]

You still can't fight the laws of thermodynamics.

If you heat a certain amount of water by one degree it takes a certain amount of energy. Hotter water, more energy. Whether you heat 2 gallons of water to shower temp, or 1 gallon to almost boiling  and then mix in 1 gal of cold before you have a shower, it WILL use the same amount of power.

The ONLY upside to running your hot water at a higher temp is the supply will last longer, because you can use more cold water.

But it will use slightly more power. Even with insulation you still loose heat. Hotter the cylinder, the more you loose.

BIG down side is safety, especially if you have children around, even as visitors. Water at 180F can burn bad enough to kill a child if they accidentally fell into a bath of it.  Only way I would have the tank temp up like that would be with an auto-mixing valve on the outlet of the tank.  Those are actually common on installations with wood fires with hot water boost. A nice hot fire can get a water cylinder boiling (212f) if you aren't using any water. That gets exciting when you turn on the hot tap, and has a tendency to kill washing machines too.

BTW, I say the thermodynamics stuff from doing level one physics at university many years ago. Actually putting heaters and thermometers in beakers of water measuring what happened. Heating 1 gal by 10 deg takes approx the same power as heating 2 gal by 5 degrees. The difference is thermal losses into the room, which are higher at the higher temp.

No mix your hot one gal with a room temp on, and you have 2 gal that is 5 deg warmer.  I could line up an old fish tank and aquarium heater and do the experiments again, but trust me, the results will be the same.

Ian

[wildbill]

i do remember setting my elements to the little arrows that said "most efficient". 

time to go write down this weeks meter numbers