Stupid stuff thread

[Jim_Rogers]

I thought that maybe I had started a "stupid stuff I've done" thread. Or maybe someone else has already, but I couldn't find it.

So, I'll title this one. "Good one, Stupid Jim."

The back ground to this picture:



 

is that I had a slow leak in one rear tire. A while ago, I took it off the truck and went to a tire store and asked them to fix the slow leak. The clerk at the counter said they wouldn't fix that tire. But he didn't say why. So I left.

Well, this is my regular tire store and I figured he didn't want to fix it as it was kind of old and worn at bit. And they have signs all over the place that they won't mix and match tires on four wheel drive vehicles. Which my vehicle is.

I traveled over a short distance to another tire store/wholesale outlet place where I have bought used tires before. And got one used tire to put on to get me by. Well, their tire balancing machine was broken and they were waiting for a part to come in. I told them I'd get by without it being balanced.

On the drive back, in my mother's car, I stopped by to see another mechanic I know and asked him if it would make a big difference if I didn't get this "rear" tire balanced or not. He said it wouldn't make any difference, but that I could try it and if it thumps a bit to take it off and get it balanced.

I put it on the truck and didn't get it balanced. I'm not sure if not getting it balanced was my first mistake or not.
But putting it back on the truck was for sure.

I guess, looking back, I didn't get the rim completely seated on the axle and hub as it should have been. I thought I did at the time, but time has told me that most likely I didn't.

I drove the truck for a while and all seemed to be ok. No thumping or anything and I though I was ok.

Then one day last week I loaded it up with trash barrels to go to the transfer station and do another errand. On the way to the transfer station I could hear this thumping and figured it was just cause the tire had sat there a few days and wasn't anything to worry about.

Well the thumping got louder and soon it was worse. I pulled over to a side street into a shady spot off the main road, as I could hear the rear tire rubbing something and it wasn't right at all.

I got out and looked and the rear tire was shifted out about 2" or more from where it would normally be. OH great, I've broken an axle or something.

So, I called triple A and asked for a tow. Of course my yearly membership had just expired. Great another expense right off the bat. So I paid up and they said they'd send a truck over and tow me back to my yard. They asked what was wrong and I told them that I thought that I had broken a rear axle.

2 1/2 hours later the guy shows up with a ramp truck. It wasn't the greatest time sitting there waiting for the tow, as it was 90° out that day, but I was in the shade.
Finally he shows up and I asked him where did he come from Boston? as it took them 2 1/2 hours to get to me. He told me know NH. A town 1/2 hour drive away.

He asked me what happened. I told him I think I broke an axle as the wheel and tire has shifted out. He looked under the truck and said he thought that I might have broken a "c" clip or something like that. But anyway he hooked it up and rolled it up onto the ramp truck and delivered me and the SUV back to my yard/driveway.

I called a mechanic who lives next door to my logger's house and asked him if he could come over and figure out what was wrong and what my options were to get it fixed. I told him over the phone that the tire had shifted out and that I thought I may have broken an axle.

Several days later he showed up and we got my jack out and he went under the truck and said that the brake drum and everything looked right and was in the right place. I told him that the tire had shifted out a bit and we could see that it wasn't in the correct spot or position. He slid around and looked at the rim.

He asked me where were all my lug nuts? I told him I didn't know, that I thought they were holding the tire on. He said there weren't any lug nuts showing.

He jacked up the truck and the tire fell off onto the driveway and we saw what you see in the picture above. Three out of five of the studs had broken off, and the last two studs there didn't have any lug nuts on them.

I was shocked to say the least.

We tried to remount the rim back onto the truck to drive it over to his house/garage and it wouldn't seat as the inside of the rim was all banged up from the thing wobbling around while I was driving it without any lug nuts holding the tire on.
So we had to get a spare rim that I had and he took it with him to work the next day and swapped out the new used tire off the bad rim and onto the good rim.
Yesterday he shows up after his Saturday part time job and puts the wheel onto the truck. He had cleaned out the threads on the two remaining studs so that he could put on some new lug nuts I had bought. But the thread were damaged some.

Well, he got one up tight and while tightening up the other one, it broke off. Great, now I got only one stud holding on the tire. I asked him if I was going to have to call the tow truck again and pay for a tow. They won't haul you twice for the same breakdown, for free under your membership.
He said no, just drive it real slow the mile from my driveway to his house.

So, I did. It wasn't fun at all. And while driving at 5 miles an hour, I could hear the rim making noise. He even said he could hear it making noise from his SUV as he was following me watching for the wheel to wobble. And if it was to start wobbling bad he was going to blow his horn and I would stop.
Well, by hook and by crook, I got it to his garage. I couldn't have gone another mile that's for sure.

I got four new lug nuts and five new studs from one auto parts store as that was all they had. And I got two more lug nuts from another store. It cost me about $25 for all of them.

Today, he finished fixing it. He got the broken studs out, and put the new ones in. I didn't question him if he removed the last one or not, but I will tomorrow when I see him to pay him the balance of what I owe him.

While we were talking on the phone the other night, I asked him if someone has come into my yard and did a dirty trick on me and removed my lug nuts? Or did they just "work themselves" off the studs.
He said he had no way of knowing if someone had done that to me or not. But he did say that at his regular work job, where he is a mechanic fixing cars and such, that another guy had come in with a damaged car where a wheel had fallen off while he was driving and it did all kinds of damage to his car, as it was a front tire.
I had never heard of lug nuts working themselves off a stud ever before.

So, my question to all of you is: "have you ever heard of this before?"

I guess I need to sign off this thread "stupid stuff I've done".....

Jim Rogers

[yukon cornelius]

hey jim! yes it happens and happened to me . 89 chevy 1500. the small fire dept I was on back in the 90s didn't have a way to haul the porta tank, folding tank to dump water in so the tanker (tender) could go refill. so a fire tones out, I roll up to the station, load the tank and drive emergency to the fire. fire out, load up and haul a few extra guys back and have a bit of a vibration someone asked about. I shrug it off and pull into the station and make the loop to turn around. pop pop pop pop pop!!! so I stop and get out to see the front wheel leaned out. pop off the centercap and 5 of the 6 studs with nuts on them fall out!! another couple feet and the wheel falls off. or while running emergency to the call. YIKES! over tightening of aluminum wheels can cause washout of the metal which can lead to lug failure. under tightening can also lead to failure.

another time, a few years ago my 99 dodge 3500 broke 4 of 8 lugs (front wheel). unknown cause. possible towing gooseneck off road often

[Magicman]

Sorry for your troubles Jim. 

Yes, I had it to happen once.  Apparently I put the lug nuts on by hand and forgot to tighten them.  I made it about 4 miles at the speed that an 18 year old travels.

[Bill Gaiche]

Had a 55 chevy that happened to. I guess that I hadn't tightened them correctly. Wheels today have a torque setting for the lug nuts. They should be tightened to that spec. That keeps them from coming off and being torqued also keeps the rotors on disc brake systems from warping. My 04 chevy torques at 140 pounds. Check your manual for that torque setting for your vehicle to make sure and you should never have any problems. bg

[thecfarm]

A woman was stopped on a hill on a back road at a slight angle,driver side was low too. Getting closer to her I could see why,no front tire. I stopped,she was calling someone. I told her it looked OK,but hard to say too. I could see where the rotor left a mark on the tar. But all looked fine.
My Father changed a tire on the truck. Driving more than a half hour from the house,my father said,look at that tire going down the road,at about 50mph. I was about 10-12 years old than.About then BANG,down came the rear end onto the ground. Tire went across a golf course. Lucky no one got hit by the tire or it would of killed them. A couple guys stop and we all went hunting for the tires. If I remember right,the lug nuts was hot. That was the days of hubcaps. All the nuts was inside of the hub cap. No damage to the hub on the axle,somehow. Just put the tire back on and off we went. Mighty lucky.

[pineywoods]

Jim, you probably got taken by a well known but little understood gotcha. Look at a lug bolt as if it's a rubber band. When tightened, the bolt will actually stretch a bit. Loosen it and it will shrink back to the original length. HOWEVER, like a rubber band, stretch it beyond a certain point, and it won't shrink back. A bolt that has been stretched beyond that critical point will stretch more, but won't shrink back. How does that happen ? Over zealous use of a big impact wrench is just one cause. A more sneaky cause is alloy wheels. When heated, aluminum expands faster and more than steel, thus stretching the lug bolt more than normal. That's why the torque specs for alloy wheels is considerably LESS than for steel rims. If your tire shop uses an impact driver on alloy wheels, you need to go elsewhere. Use a torque wrench. The gotcha is once a lug bolt has been stretched beyond that critical limit, you can never keep them tight. The only fix is to replace the lug bolts and always tighten with a torque wrench.

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for all your comments, stories and suggestions.
I'll talk to my mechanic who fixed it and see what he says and discuss your comments about torque settings.

Jim Rogers

[petefrom bearswamp]

Any tire shop or other shop that does a lot of tire work that is worth its salt uses torque limiting sockets or extensions when tightening lugs on alloy wheels.

[SPIKER]

Any tire shop or other shop that does a lot of tire work that is worth its salt uses torque limiting sockets or extensions when tightening lugs on alloy wheels.

I feel exactly the opposite, a shop that puts on a wheel using a torq wrench is one you want.   Those "Torque Limiting" extensions/sockets are a gimmick from my understanding.   Just as others noted about over tightening & stretching the bolt/stud same thing with those limiting sockets/extensions.   They work for a short time then fatigue sets in and are no longer right. 

I had my REAR tires come off after putting a NEW SET of tires onto the car.   They were Uni-Lug Magnesium Rims (expensive) and the fronts stayed on but rears both were loose/almost falling off.   I had the new tires put on in Kansas and drove next morning back to Ohio.   I made it to Ohio but when I pulled into home something was bumping a bit.   (Drove it straight thru with only a gas/go stops.)   Called the shop next morning about the issue & they claimed it was MY FAULT.   Said I was required to re-tightening them after 500 miles.   They DID replace the missing lug nuts and Locking Lugs I had on it but refused to pay for the damaged rims.


I now use ONLY Torque Wrench set for Aluminum rims around 80 ft lbs and re-tighten the rims after 100 miles and a 3rd time after about 500 miles...   ;)   Never an issue since then but again I wasn't one that did the tires, & witnessed them use the impact on my rims the first time.
Mark

[Brad_bb]

My 55 Chevy restoration, on the maiden voyage I had the lug nuts back off one wheel and violent wobbling,  and did some damage to studs.  Got the car stopped before it came off.  In this case, rims were softer back before the 70's.  Over tightening (with impact wrench) mushrooms the lug holes in the wheel rim.  This wheel's lug holes were mushroomed (and I couldn't see that when I restored the wheel), so when I installed the wheel, what appeared to be tight and torqued, probably had a few thousandths play.  ANY play will allow the lug nut to back off and it will get progressively worse as the play gets bigger.  Today, even though steel rims are a little tougher, over tightening with an impact can stretch the studs as someone else indicated above.  This can cause 1)a much weaker stud that can break, or 2)a stud that may have play and allow the nut to back off.

The moral of the story is to always hand torque wheel lugs to spec.  NEVER use or let anyone use an impact wrench to tighten.  it's fine for  loosening, but never for tightening.

I had to scrap that 55 Chevy wheel and find, bodywork and paint another one that wasn't mushroomed.

[Corley5]

We had an AMC Eagle with aluminum rims that needed the lugs retightened once after putting the wheel back on.  A run to town and back, 12 miles, and then retighten was good.  They wouldn't loosen up again.  If you didn't run it least that far and retighten they'd loosen up in less than a 100 miles.  I had a Dodge Ramcharger with alloys on it that needed checking after few miles too.  They only loosened up once and only needed to be retightened once but I always checked after the first time.

[glassman_48]

I put tires on my first wifes car back in the late 70's, we bought tires from a friend that owned a gas station.  She took her car in, drove it home and back and forth to the store a couple of times.  I got in on the weekend and we were driving somewhere and after I got off our dirt road and on to the pavement I went about 100 yards and pulled off the noise was so bad.  My wife said oh its been doing that for a while now.  He just forgot to tighten the lug nuts.  After that every time I get a set of tires I tell that story and they usually let me come back and they will hand tighten the last turn with a lug wrench. 

[Gadrock]

several years ago I built an ATV Park. So I was quite close to the workings of all those exotic tires and wheels on those mud bogging ATV's. I am not sure about the complete metal makeup of the aluminum type wheels but their torque requirements are greater than the steel wheels. The lug nuts are steel on steel lugs that squeeze into a taper position, unlike some of today's modern equipment that is pilot bored, with the nuts being similar to a regular nut....flat surface type.


David G


carry on

[Wade60]

I had a wheel come off of a 92 Toyota 4x4 while I was driving down the road on Ft Bragg. Wheel rolled across 4 lanes of traffic and rested against some lady's car. The 82nd Airborne Division commander drove by as I was jacking it up and putting it back on. I found 5 out of 6 lug nuts in about a 25 foot stretch of road right behind my truck.

[Ljohnsaw]

Sorry for your troubles Jim. 

Yes, I had it to happen once.  Apparently I put the lug nuts on by hand and forgot to tighten them.  I made it about 4 miles at the speed that an 18 year old travels.

Similar situation - I was 17.  I was working on driver-side front tire.  My Delmont 88 had the speedo cable that went to the front hub (odd and a pain).  I pulled the wheel to repair, put it back on and tightened as tight as I could with the wheel off the ground.  Meant to finish when I took it off the jack but forgot.  Drove a couple miles into town and watched my hub cab take a trip - odd, I thought.  Retrieved it and then back out to an auto shop my brother-in-law worked at.  Halfway there, strange vibrations doing 60+ mph.  Pulled off on a road that was really steep.  Tried to make it up to the top where it was flat to work on my tire - didn't make it - THUMP.  Found all the nuts on the road right there.  Always double check my nuts now.

[coxy]

had a flat on a 95 chev 1/2 took the spare put it on and down the road I went all of a sudden this big bang the truck jumps up and my dad says there goes your tire    truck slams down in the road brake drum and parts all over side of truck box half ripped off  the rim that I put on was rusted from being under the truck and the rust never let the lugs get tight  so now I have the spare in the bed and will never use the one under the truck   my wifes suv is the same its in the back not under shes not vary happy but I wont go through that again  ;D

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for all the story and sharing.

Yesterday "stupid stuff" event was a wild ride.

I was traveling to back from the western side of my state, some 4 hours drive out and I was about 1 hour into the drive back, when on a two lane road, I came upon a construction site where the lanes were down to one.
The two cops working the constuciton site where taking turns letting one direction go through.

Of course she raised her hand and instructed the panel van in front of me to stop. Which he did, rather quickly.

I had to also stop rather quickly.

The lady cop had turned her back to us and didn't see me trying to stop my truck when the brakes had failed.
I didn't want to plow into the back of the van so I went around it through the line of cones into the oncoming lane and back into my lane again. Trying as best I could to get the truck to stop, which it wasn't doing.
She had her back to me and was standing in the middle of my lane signaling the on coming traffic to come through.
Well the first vehicle could see me doing the s curve maneuver and didn't move. I was about to hit this cop from behind while frantically trying to stop, so I put my truck into the guard rail. Likely the rubbing of the front bumper against the rail made it stop with the cop right beside me at the driver's window.
I just missed her.

She was not happy at all. And screamed at me that she had told me to stop. I screamed back at her that my brakes had failed. She thought I was the first vehicle in the line, which I wasn't I was the second but I went around the first the panel van. He was not happy either and blew his horn at either me or the cop.

She was wearing ear plugs as the construction crew were using jack hammers fixing the bridge deck.

She pulled out her ear plus and said "what?" I said my brakes had failed.
She said then what are you doing driving this truck? I said I'd get it off the road as soon as I got through the construction site. She told me there was a rest area up the street aways and that I should "pull in" there. I slowly rolled up the street when the lane was clear and parked it in rest area.

I got out and looked under the truck, after opening the hood and looking at the master cylinder tank, which surprisingly appeared to be full.

The left front tire was all wet with brake fluid.
I looked at it from the front and it was dripping brake fluid.
I had blow out a wheel cylinder, somehow.

While waiting for a friend to arrive with a can of brake fluid and a set of vise grips to pinch off the rubber line, the lady cop came driving up in her cruiser and asked me if I and help coming. I told her I did.

After my friend arrived, we filled up the brake fluid tank, for some reason it didn't take much at all. And I had him push on the brake while I watched underneath. Sure enough brake fluid came dripping down.

I took the new vise grips he got from the auto parts store when he bought me a quart of brake fluid and clamped off the rubber line between the frame and wheel. He then pushed on the brake, no fluid leaked out.

I got in the truck and tried moving it. It stopped very nice. And I pushed hard on the brake and it held.

I drove the 3 hours home with three wheels working the brakes. It pulled to the right a lot but I got it home.

It was a very close call for sure.

I was going to drive over to the nearest Midas shop and have them fix it but after talking to my mechanic friend on the phone he said if I could get it home he'd fix it for me.

Looking at my old receipts in my glove box from Midas, the charged me about $90 to install the lifetime guaranteed brake pads, the last time I had them replaced. Sure free pads for the life of your car but $90 each time each pad when you need them replaced.

Hopefully I'll get it fixed over the weekend and will not need to take it to my local Midas shop.

Jim Rogers   

[sandhills]

Glad you made it through that ok!  Too many drivers these days rely on their brakes way too much (I may even be one those from time to time).  My wife scares the heck out of me in city driving, why, when you can see a yellow light from a block away do you have to fly up there at 50 mph and slam on the brakes???  I've always worked on my own vehicles including the brakes so I guess maybe I know too much, kind of like riding a rollercoaster, running a sawmill, farm equipment, anything can and will fail eventually.  Good thing you were on your toes, she'd have probably been screaming a lot louder from underneath your vehicle, or worse yet the one in front of you.