Drying pine logs

[BoBryan]

I am new to the forum and have found it very informative .. thanks.

My question is: I have Virginia pine post 17' long ranging from 9" to 15 " diameter that I want to use as posts supporting my deck on the log cabin I want to build. I have been told by the building inspector that, if they are not pressure treated, they need to have a moisture content of 15%. How long will it take for them to dry to that point if I keep them off the ground, debark them and cover them with a tented tarp?

Is there anything I can do to accelerate the drying process?

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Our great Badgers basketball coach is Bo Ryan, couldn't help but see the resemblance of your forum name.

Not at all sure what your inspector is getting at, that a post must be either PT or be dried to 15%.
I think he/she has something mixed up here, or interpreted wrong.
Pressure treated or a species that is resistant to decay would be the choices for in-ground posts, or keeping the ground bone dry so the post stays 15% (may not work for outdoor deck).

However, the only way to get them to dry to 15% is to get the temperature/relative humidity conditions to where the wood will seek that mc.
Some info here
http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/for/for55/for55.htm

Need to keep the Relative Humidity at around 75-80% to get the wood to equalize at 15%.

Accelerate with heat.

[red oaks lumber]

i supplied alot of 6x10 pine beams for a house project and the inspector was throwing a fit.he demanded it be 15 %. his only bit of knowledge was from a mold standpoint.
as for your post application, peel them and keep them covered (not completly) air dry as long as you can, the exterior will be 15%. ask the inspector point blank, by what means are you checking the moisture? or is it just for mold issues.have him explain in more detail what the results he wants to see.most inspectors know enough to be dangerous and not much more.
welcome to the forum

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, BoBryan.

[drobertson]

I've only sawed a few log cabins, all of which did not have to follow inspection codes, but after what I have researched all of these were built a little to soon.  this said they are still looking good and sound, two were built on a concrete pad, the other on piers. What I found is the same as everyone has mentioned.  Debarked, stacked well off the ground, stickered if there are more than one layer, and stored in an area with good air flow. the is a thread on the forum that has some good comments,

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,37315.msg538731.html#msg538731

[BoBryan]

Thanks for the welcomes and info provided. I had wondered how the inspector was going to test the moisture content at the center of a 12" dia. 17' long log's middle. I will call to ask after he gets back from his holiday vacation.

I noticed that no one offered an estimate of how long the drying might take. I cut the trees down last month (November 8th, 2014) and want to build the deck in May 2015. Do you think they will be dry enough to place on concrete footers to support the deck and stain/seal them?

[drobertson]

I'm thinking this is a lil bit early,, but, the others were too, so time will tell. If recollection serves me, sealing logs with too much moisture is a recipe for internal rotting.

[beenthere]

Bo
Don't see mention of which pine you are talking about.

And as for an estimate of how long the drying might take, it all depends on the air. As well as what is "well enough to place on concrete". Likely will not be close to 15% mc by this coming May.

I'd be looking at alternatives to using your pine, and have something pressure treated if any exposure to the weather at all.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

I am assuming, due to your location, that you have loblolly pine.  You can dry them dry enough to be treated in about 8 weeks of nice weather...60 F or warmer.  Keep the rain off, but provide lots of air flow.  I suggest that you find a treater in your area and have him include your logs with one of his loads.  It will cost, but otherwise, it is extremely likely that decay will begin in a few years.  Only the orange colored heartwood has much decay resistance naturally.  (Of course, commercially treated and graded pieces would be ideal, except I suspect you want to use your own wood.)  In many parts of VA, the outside conditions are too damp to even be able to reach 15% MC, especially in the core of the wood  no matter how long you air dry.  But even if you do achieve this low MC, what is to prevent the wood from regaining moisture when it rains?  then the wood will start to decay.  In short, your inspector has his heart in the right place, but does not know what he is talking ab out as far as 15% MC goes...such a MC value offers no protection against decay or insects if it gets wet from rain, sprinklers, etc.

[Magicman]

No matter what, I would use a moisture barrier of some type between the poles and the concrete.

[drobertson]

I think bo said they were Virginia pine  12" dia?  8 weeks seems quick for a rookie like myself,  I've seen stuff treated and sealed way to early, and rot occurs for sure.   If this cabin is to be around for years, I might consider some pipe jacks, and use some 4/4 to wrap temporarily, and let the wood you want to use dry for the allowable time frame,,  some things just take time to make it right..  no offence intended for the experts here, just replying on my limited experience.

[beenthere]

I think bo said they were Virginia pine  12" dia?

Sorry, I missed that.
But leads me to be more concerned about using this pine for outdoor posts.

Information regards its resistance to decay is much along the same conclusions as this quote:

The heartwood of Virginia pine, is only slightly resistant to nonresistant to decay,

Could only recommend pressure treated or a much more resistant wood if untreated.
But sounds like Bo has to get around the inspector regardless.

[BoBryan]

Thanks everyone for the info. I have found a pressure treater and high temp kiln (kills bugs before shipping overseas) not too far away. I am going to find out how much they charge.

Does anyone have a way to check the MC at the center of a long log? I do not want the log to rot because it was not dry enough when I sealed it.

[drobertson]

Not sure about that, but you may have to do a sample piece at the same time and do a weight test after drying.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

There are two ways commonly used to check interior MC. 

The first is using a small corer and taking out a long, circular core, with a special drill bit done slowly to avoid heating, The core is taken from the bark to the center and is often 1/4" diameter.  Once extracted, then the core is cut into shorter lengths, weighed on a very accurate, high resolution balance, oven-dried, and weighed again, which allows the calculation of the MC for each  piece of the core, which gives a MC profile as a function of depth.

The second is with a pin meter, except for pins you use nails.  The nails are driven to the required depth.  The MC reading when the nail heads are touching the meter's pins will be the wettest spot along the nails' length.  Because the pin meters do not give accurate readings above 30% MC, this technique does not work at higher MCs.  (Note that for treating, often the outer two inches is all that is treated, so maybe you do not want to drive the nails too deeply?)

[landscraper]

Hi Bo,

I hadn't been following this thread until now, I see you are in Buckingham.  If you don't mind my asking, who did you find to treat the wood?  The only one I know of around here that will do it is Cove Creek on 29S just north of the Nelson County line and I don't think he has a kiln.  I'd be interested in hearing about another outfit in case I ever need that service.

[BoBryan]

Thanks everyone for the help - still pursuing using the logs for deck posts. Have talked with the builder about using temporary metal poles if the logs are not ready.

Landscraper -I am still trying to reach the pressure treater (he is not very good about returning calls) to verify their capabilities and cost. They are located in Amelia Courthouse Va. Their name is Anderson Brothers. (804) 561-2153

[kwendt]

BoBryan.. welcome. I'm new too.

Just a thought... but do you have any log home builders in your area? They usually have wood kiln drying buildings! and if you're local, you might could work a deal where they add your logs to their drying process. There are at least three log home companies near me, and I know that for sure one of them is awesome about helping out local DIYer builders (like us!  ;D). Also, I'm not sure, but maybe the inspector would accept a report from the Log Home people, stating to what % your logs have been dried...etc.