Poly or Lacquer

[Bill Gaiche]

Hey guys I need a little of your experience on this next project. I am getting ready to build a 41" x 78" ERC table for a friends fishing cabin. I have sprayed almost everything in the past with Poly. I built a 79" x 39" mirror last week and because of the cold and wet I decided to spray it with Lacquer. It dried really fast and made a nice finish. If I had used Poly it probably wouldn't be dry yet. My question is, which would you recommend to finish the table with? Just some nasty ole fisherman will be sitting around it eating and telling lies. Thanks in advance. bg

[yukon cornelius]

I am terrible with finishes so I will be following this. I have had some questions about finishes as well lately.

[johnnyllama]

lacquer is not a great finish for a table top. It is not that hard and not great with moisture, although it sprays great and is easy to get a great looking finish. I've had decent luck spraying Target brand coating's water based 8000 conversion varnish. It's harder and more durable than lacquer, yet sprays well and dries to the touch in about the same time as lacquer. They also offer a clear poly finish that is quite durable. These are much better water based finishes than the retail store brands, but you probably would have to order online. Usually takes a couple days to get delivered to me by UPS. Google Target Coatings.

[21incher]

I would think that oil based poly would be more durable then lacquer when it comes to taking abuse on a soft wood. As you probably know that I am not a fan of the Hardware store water based finishes but they do seem to remain flexible after drying if you can live with a less then perfect water white finish.

[MattJ]

From my experience water based finishes and ERC don't mix.  The wood is too oily and water based, even the expensive ones, won't bind and the finish comes up in scales.  Stick with an oil based poly.

Matt

[Ianab]

Another vote for an oil based poly for this application, simply because it's hard wearing and resistant to the sort of spills that you are going to get on a cabin table from a bunch of fisherman.  :D

[gfadvm]

I am a big fan of Spar Urethane. It adds a bit of amber color due to the "long oils" it contains. I spray 2 coats in one session and come back with 2 more the next day. It dries to the touch very rapidly when sprayed but won't be cured to final hardness for as long as a week.  I really like it on softer woods as it is more flexible than poly.

[Den-Den]

Poly is more durable than ordinary lacquer.  I have had some issues with poly drying properly on ERC (I think that Minwax quick drying poly is OK if it is not old).  There is a significant difference in color of the finished product; oil based poly will darken ERC a lot, lacquer does not change the color much.  Lacquer is easier and quicker (during warm dry weather) to apply and much easier to repair if scratched.  Kind of like comparing apples and oranges.

[yukon cornelius]

hope I am not hijacking, but what about auto style clear coats? they would be a very hard finish and would have durability against uv. I have been thinking about that lately especially for wet or outdoor application.

[Left Coast Chris]

A reputable shop in the coast who does exclusively redwood cuts the poly in half with thinner for the first three coats to carry it in deeper then a couple of coats full strength to build it up.    This hardens the softwood to a greater degree.   It seems like a pretty good idea and I will be using it on my next redwood table.   I also prefer wipe on oil poly.

[jueston]

A reputable shop in the coast who does exclusively redwood cuts the poly in half with thinner for the first three coats to carry it in deeper then a couple of coats full strength to build it up.    This hardens the softwood to a greater degree.   It seems like a pretty good idea and I will be using it on my next redwood table.   I also prefer wipe on oil poly.

this idea of thinning  poly to help with saturation is very common, i have heard many many times. i'm wondering if there has ever been a scientific study of finish depth or saturation?

i have cut the end off a lot of finished boards finished with many different kinds of finishes and i have never noticed the grain appearing to have any saturation below the surface. and especially when i hear people say 3 or 4 coats of thinned finish, i question if after the first coat the wood could possibly still be porous since the pores should be blocked by the first coat of poly.

i asked i painter and finisher who i work with and he said people often want the first coat thinned, so he has no problem charging them to do so, but wouldn't do it in his own home, since he doesn't see the value.

if there has never been a study of finish saturation depth i will be forced to conduct my own. 

[pineywoods]

Automotive clear coat finish sounds interesting. I've never fooled with it. Is it a 2 part process ?

[yukon cornelius]

Automotive clear coat finish sounds interesting. I've never fooled with it. Is it a 2 part process ?

I know some have at least 2 parts. i don't know all the details but i remember one i used one time had a catalyst and other parts to it. i may have to try it as i think i have some leftovers from it

[beenthere]

jueston
If you study the penetration question, plan on looking at the microscopic depth of any penetration. This likely will not be "visible to the eye".

[jueston]

jueston
If you study the penetration question, plan on looking at the microscopic depth of any penetration. This likely will not be "visible to the eye".

yes it would require a very high level of magnification, and if the total range is in the thousands of an inch, then the conversation we as woodworkers should be having is not how much penetration we can get, but what hardness of finish can we get on the surface.

[beenthere]

Googling "depth of wood finish" came up with some interesting hits.

Here is one that may help the subject here.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/toolguide/articles/selecting-a-finish.aspx

[ScottAR]

Any true automotive clear coat will be a 2k or 2 part system primer/catalyst just like epoxy style glue.

I dunno why it wouldn't work to prepped wood.  I've sold quite a bit of paint/clear for electric guitars
Oily woods like cedar could have issues.  My supplier (PPG) used to recomend a certain clear for the first coat but they don't produce it anymore.  Been a few years and I can't remember the product numbers now. 

Be sure and wear proper PPE when spraying any 2k products.  Isocyanate poisoning is a real concern.
P95 respirator or even better, a fresh air style system.

[yukon cornelius]

Awesome scott! I see an experiment in the works. it will be a long one as I want to clear something and then expose it to weather to see. I will try to post when I start it. thanks for letting me jump in on this.

[pineywoods]

Just be sure to thoroughly clean your spray equipment when done. If that 2 part stuff sets up in the nozzles, you may as well scrap it..

[Bill Gaiche]

Here is the table I started. You can't find Cabot Poly around here in our local stores lately, don't know why. Last time and this time they only have it in varnish. So I thought I would go with that. Its just for a bunch of fishermen, right. I know they make better stuff, again its free to them and if they don't like it, well they can redo it. I did thin the varnish 10-20% each coat of a total of three and I did spray it.It sprayed good and I hope it holds up for a few years. We will see I guess. Thanks for all your inputs, I truly enjoyed reading them and took all of them into consideration. bg 
 

  

  

  

  

[Andy White]

Bill,
All that shine will surely scare off all the fish!!!! That thing looks great. That spray varnish does look smooth. Andy