mafell mortise machine

newt · July 01, 2015, 10:05:26 PM

Hey folks,

Looking for a Mafell Mortise machine.....used or not. I have used both the Makita and Mafell and prefer the mafell....it is the cadilac. If anybody has avenues for used mafell tools, please let me know. This might should go under the tools forum but cold t get it to post there. Please feel free to move.
Cheers

AlaskaLes · July 02, 2015, 04:12:52 AM

I got the chance to use them both during a recent TF class and we were planning on buying the Mafell too.
Then I saw the Swisspro and now we're leaning towards that instead.
Looks like it has all of the benefits and durability of the Mafell with more power, integral bar lubrication and more maintenance friendly. Similar in cost.
Have you seen these?

newt · July 02, 2015, 09:16:30 AM

No, have not seen the Swisspro.....will try to find it....can you buy it in the states?

AlaskaLes · July 03, 2015, 02:13:47 AM

We found it on the Timbertools website.
They also have a fairly detailed comparison between the Mafell/ Swisspro and Hema chain mortisers.
We're looking at the SwiissPro KSP16. About the same price as a Mafell, but it looks to be very well designed and Yes, it's available here in the US from Timbertools.
Stepfather took the course with me and he's the one that pointed me to it.

We've got several projects planned and probably more on the horizon when those are done, so it will easily pay for itself by the time we get just the primary jobs finished.
During the class, we cut some mortises by the drill and chisel method and then used the mortiser and it is incredible the time savings and quality of cut with a premium mortiser.
We'll be getting the 220V version.

John.Howard · July 03, 2015, 05:26:23 AM

All the timber frame companies I've subbed for use Mafell. Then one guy I worked with had a Makita and I though "no way". However, I soon came to appreciate the versatility of the machine. Firstly, with the Mafell you can only cut minimum 1 1/2" (actually, it's 40mm) unless you change the bar. That's fine if you only ever want to cut 40mm mortices, but with the Makita you could cut a mortice for a door frame, or a lock, etc. it also cuts on the rip whereas Mafell cut cross cut, so the Makita cuts a much cleaner mortice. I understand some years ago at the Carpenters Fellowship annual event 'Frame' there was a race between several different types of morticer. It was either the Makita or the Ryobi that won. Both are of a similar design. When you get used to it, it's quick, and even if it was a bit slower, how much of your day is spent cutting mortices? Far more time is spent scribing and marking joints, moving timbers around and cutting tenons. Unless you are a full time framer, I recommend the Makita, which is also about half the price! For conservation work, you can even clamp it above your head if needs be! I was convinced enough to buy one and I have never regretted it. Something for you to consider anyway...

S.Hyland · July 03, 2015, 01:54:44 PM

I own both the Makita and the Hema (which is virtually identical to the Mafell). They both have there place for sure, but for production of 1 1/2" and 2" mortises the Hema is king. Of course you do need to buy two sizes of bar, further adding to the expense of the machine. The cost/ benefit ratio just depends on how many mortises you plan on doing.

I absolutely agree with AlaskaLes of the Swiss Pro! I had a chance to use it at a TF Guild confrence and it is THE best for production work. I will be buying one in the next year. It corrects may of the deficiencies of the Hema/ Mafell machine and appears to have all the advantages.

AlaskaLes · July 03, 2015, 02:33:31 PM

The one benefit of us using our own trees will be that the White Spruce up here is rated requiring a 2" tenon, so we'll only have to buy the 2" bar.
Thanks Hyland for the input on the SwissPro.
John, we've looked at and tried the Makita, but I think we're both wanting the more production paced machine. If we really get busy doing this TF work, I could see getting a thinner bar for the thinner/longer through tenons for hardwood accents.

Dave Shepard · July 03, 2015, 04:48:39 PM

We have a Swisspro at work. I haven't used it yet, but will next week. My boss did not speak favorably about the Makita. I've seen a Mafell run, and it'll beat the pants off a Makita.

canopy · July 03, 2015, 08:39:28 PM

I've only used the Makita. It's a big step over a drill, but it's not perfect. Below are some downsides. Maybe others can speak of how the other machines perform relative to this.

1. I have to say I was appalled the Makita can't even do one basic 1.5" mortise without needing to be moved. In the first position you do 6 plunges in a 2x3 pattern, but that doesn't go wide enough or long enough. So you now have to hand crank to re-align to the outer edge to plunge wider--and there's nothing to help ensure a mortise is say, 1.5" wide. And then the machine needs physically moved and re-aligned to do it all over again down the length. All the adjustment and moving for each mortise is tedious, time consuming, and can easily introduce errors. It just doesn't seem like the designers had in mind making mortises of timber frame size.

2. Alignment is especially error prone because the tape measure on the tool is raised off the timber rather than flat against it so you have to make an eye ball estimate when using it. And myself and others felt the need to add a mark to have some idea of where the chain will have edge contact (hard to explain, you'd have to see it) instead of shooting in the dark.

3. Plunging can be sloppy and chip or chain graze the bearing surface past the line which at the very least is not aesthetically pleasing. So the machine is not really practical to do the entire mortise, but instead use the Makita to rough out and then cut to the edge precisely with a chisel. Parallel to the grain it cuts pretty clean as long as you scribe the mortise face to prevent chip out and align it perfect as you move it down the line (more difficult).

4. Another drawback is it is not adjustable for non-square timbers. So the blade always cuts perpendicular to the surface of the wood and that's no good on non-reference faces which is frequently the case. So after I plunge a mortise I level the timber and use a bubble level and chisel out undercut sides.

Jim_Rogers · July 03, 2015, 09:53:16 PM

I made a YouTube video showing how I set my Makita machine to make mortises the right distance off set and the right width.

https://youtu.be/U0dfPdIQJv4

This video has been viewed over 30,000 times.....

Jim Rogers

Dave Shepard · July 04, 2015, 12:15:37 PM

That's a great video Jim. It really explains the way the machine works. I think the Makita meets a certain price point, which makes it affordable to more people. The Swisspro and Mafell styles are much faster and production oriented. With the guide fence, you just step up to the timber and plunge each end and then hog the middle. Three or four quick plunges and on to the next mortise. You do have to change guide bars for different widths, but that is as quick as changing the bar and chain on a chainsaw. Often you only have one width mortise on a frame anyway, although the one I'm working on at work right now has two inch mortises on everything but the braces, so we will have all of our brace mortises laid out and will cut them all at once, then switch back to the two inch bar for the rest of the frame.

AlaskaLes · July 04, 2015, 02:12:42 PM

Dave, I would really like to hear your assessment of the SwissPro, once you've had the chance to give it a run.
These are not cheap and any input that might help us make the right decision is greatly appreciated.

Dave Shepard · July 09, 2015, 06:55:15 PM

We cut some mortises today. 2" x9" x5.5" deep took one minute five seconds with a dull chain. Swiss Pro ksp 16

AlaskaLes · July 10, 2015, 03:06:48 PM

Dave,
Comparing the Swisspro to the Mafell...would you say that the Swisspro is the better machine?
Was this your first time operating a chain mortiser?
Thanks,
Les

Dave Shepard · July 11, 2015, 10:37:07 AM

I have never operated a mortiser, just observed. The SwissPro has better chip clearance and offers longer bars, from what I understand. They are both fast and user friendly from what I've seen. The SwissPro at work is 220 volts, and that works better than the Mafell that I saw on 120, which I think draws something like 30 amps.

AlaskaLes · July 11, 2015, 02:30:09 PM

Thanks Dave.
The Mafell that we got the chance to use was a 220 volt, as is the Swisspro KSP16 that we're looking at.
The Mafell is 2000 watts and the Swisspro is 2200 watts, so there is still a slight advantage in the power category.
I'd also read that the chip clearance was better with the Swisspro.
They do indeed offer longer bars...makes an expensive tool even more so, but it's nice to know that the option is out there. I wonder if the lift piston and frame are the same length for the longer bars, or does that get changed out too?
Mafell is a great tool, but if the Swisspro is better then I'd rather dump that pile of $ on the better tool, the first time around.

S.Hyland · July 12, 2015, 11:23:39 AM

I can say that the chip clearance stinks with my Hema, which has the same basic geometry as the Mafell. I have to operate mine without the front cover to avoid unplugging it with a stick every half mortise. Also, the Swiss Pro comes with chrome hardened chain (like the Makita). I had the standard HSS chain for the Hema and it had to be sharpened about 4 times as often. I upgraded my chain on the Hema from Timbertools and am so much happier with it!

AlaskaLes · July 12, 2015, 01:16:31 PM

S.Hyland,
Thanks for the input. I was wondering about chain/edge life.
Sounds like you do a lot of mortises.
Have you worn out many chains, or is it just a lot of resharpening?

S.Hyland · July 12, 2015, 06:05:28 PM

I haven't worn out any chains yet. I did however stretch out my original chain for the Hema by not keeping it lubed enough. It wore enough slop in each linkage that it could no longer be tightened properly. That was discouraging! I would say that my chrome hardened chains see close to 10,000 Bd ft of timbers without needing sharpening, so they will last years and years. Sharpening them is easy, I just do it it in the shop.

Dave Shepard · July 14, 2015, 08:22:39 PM

The SwissPro is the king of chip clearance from what I've read. It just blows the stuff out. I punched a bunch of mortises today with it. For me, I don't think I'd ever buy one. I use 1.5 or 2 inch joinery like most people. The framing square, Big Al layout tool, and all of my chisels are designed for exactly 1.5 or 2 inch mortises and tenons. The mortisers I've been around, the Mafell and SwissPro, cut tapered mortises that are just a touch under the given dimensions. This means that you still have to go in and clean up the sides of the mortises to get proper clearances. You are only saving the boring time component compared to boring with a boring machine. So it takes two or three minutes to bore with a boring machine and one with the chain mortiser. Great, you just saved yourself 200 minutes on an average frame. $5000 divided by $100 (for 3.3 hours of employee labor) means you have a 50 frame break even point, not including sharpening charges, assuming the machine lasts the long.

Dave Shepard · July 14, 2015, 08:34:43 PM

To use the longer bars on the SwissPro you need a different stand.

timberwrestler · July 14, 2015, 10:02:46 PM

I'm not sure about the widths Dave, I just loosen the chain up a bit to get the width spot on.

I will say that a 120V mortiser has a hard time pushing a 2" bar and chain (I have the Mafell with a lot of miles on it). I'm looking for a used 220V.

Dave Shepard · July 15, 2015, 06:57:53 PM

This one is 220, and handles pine easily. It's done a lot of white oak, and it's supposed to eat that up, too.

I've seen what varying chain tensions can do. If it's tight, then it leaves a narrow mortise. If it's loose, then you can get the top out to the lines, but then the bottom is tight, and it takes more time to clean that up than a flat bottom mortise left by a drill bit of the right diameter. I'll try to upload a pic of a tight chain mortise.

Dave Shepard · July 15, 2015, 07:11:25 PM

As you can see, with a tight chain the mortise is more than an eighth of an inch too narrow. I've already bored an inch deeper than I needed to make up for the rounded bottom. I may not be as fast as a mortiser under ideal conditions with my boring machine, but I'm not enough slower to matter.