Board footage of standing

ScottInCabot · August 28, 2015, 07:09:39 PM

I have the phone app from woodweb, and it does pretty good at figuring the three scales. But I have difficulty figuring the diameter(using a framing square for the smaller) and height of timber while it is standing....there is an app for that too called 'how tall is that'(it is not very good as far as accuracy).

Looking for a better way to determine height. I do not have a laser rangefinder(and I don't want to be doing a ton of trigonometry in the woods). Any one have a better 'app', or a 'cheat' to figure height??

I was looking at a few trees today, but couldn't get a good 'read' on the height. Without a good height on the timber, the scale could be off quite a bit on the board footage(I get so much per board foot), so every bit matters.

Scott in Cabot

WV Sawmiller · August 28, 2015, 07:31:05 PM

SIC,

Never tried it but what of you lean a stick of a known length, example 16' up against the tree and use that to help estimate the length? Use a dbh tape to get diameter of butt log.

Magicman · August 28, 2015, 07:53:17 PM

You need a Biltmore Stick. Ok, it is not a smartphone app. ;D

longtime lurker · August 28, 2015, 07:59:35 PM

Diameter is relatively easy. Use a girth tape then deduct off estimated bark thickness and estimate the loss due to taper... As a method it's rough but accurate enough.

Height is another matter. I've played with the Nikon rangefinder. It is superbly accurate in the right terrain. Issues I found were that it loses accuracy as you get closer to the tree, so in thicker vegetation where you can't stand back a fair way it was very unreliable. In open forest where you can stand back far enough it becomes difficult to hold it steady enough to guarantee you're reading on the right thing - a tripod will fix that. The other thing was that all it needed was one blade of grass or leaf in the sightline to make a very accurate reading of the distance between the wrong two points. Great technology but it has its limitations, and I'd recommend anyone give it a test run before purchasing if possible due to the above issues.

The other height measurement tool I've used is a simple cliometer/height meter. Suunto make a good one. The issue there is the system relies on you being a measured distance from the tree, and again if there's a lot of undergrowth just determining that you are now precisely 45 foot off the bole can be hard. Against which if you can hook tape to tree, walk out the set distance and shoot the clino there is a scale on the back that translates angle to height ( why you need to be a set distance from the tree in the first place)No trig required. Not as fast as the laser rangefinder but quick enough in the right terrain.

Mostly I rely on MkI eyeball, but I'm not getting paid to do it and all substantive measurement is done once it's on the ground.

loggah · August 28, 2015, 08:03:14 PM

Yup biltmore stick, you walk basically 22 paces ="66" feet from the tree and line the bottom of the stick with stump height and look up at the tree top and figure out where the last log stops, and look on the stick it will tell you how many 16' logs are in the tree. When i was buying land and timber ,i could come out pretty close how much timber was on the property.

Magicman · August 28, 2015, 08:08:46 PM

Plus you can use it is as a walking stick and also whack rattlers with it.

ScottInCabot · August 28, 2015, 08:15:55 PM

Quote from: Magicman on August 28, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
You need a Biltmore Stick. Ok, it is not a smartphone app. ;D

Thank you! I just didn't know the name of it.....ordered!
(it is okay if it isn't an 'app'....gives me an excuse to leave the phone in the truck)

Scott in Cabot

drobertson · August 28, 2015, 09:35:18 PM

most conservation agencies' give them away free of charge if asked for, a night class or week end seminar is not a bad thing to attend for forestry management.

deadfall · August 28, 2015, 11:38:00 PM

I have been to every logger supply around here looking for that maple and brass app.

Could make my own I suppose.

http://4hforestryinvitational.org/training/tree-measurement-contest/ScaleStick25-04.pdf

Ron Wenrich · August 29, 2015, 07:08:21 AM

I always eyeballed my heights and came away with a good accuracy. Biltmore stick is good for heights, but a diameter tape is need for diameters. I watched guys use the Biltmore for diameters, and their accuracy was poor. Just remember that the stick is gauged for an arm's length of 25". If you hold it closer or further away, your accuracy drops off.

WDH · August 29, 2015, 07:57:30 AM

I use what LL said, a 75' loggers tape and a clinometer. It is old school, but it is consistently accurate.

bandmiller2 · August 29, 2015, 08:35:11 AM

Experience is the best teacher. If you can estimate a tree then cut and figure on the ground. After several you should get close enough. This is shotgun shooting not bench rest. Frank C.

redprospector · August 30, 2015, 02:12:19 AM

Quote from: deadfall on August 28, 2015, 11:38:00 PM
I have been to every logger supply around here looking for that maple and brass app.

Could make my own I suppose.

http://4hforestryinvitational.org/training/tree-measurement-contest/ScaleStick25-04.pdf

I've used the 4-H print off for a long time. Stick it to a wooden yard stick, and you're good to go. Pretty accurate too.

WV Sawmiller · August 30, 2015, 02:54:40 AM

MM,

If you are using a 25" stick to whack rattlers I'd seriously re-consider where I am cruising timber. I'm not extreme on these issues but a lot more comfortable with something with a 4-5 foot reach. (Used to be a sawed off 20 gauge but I am now a kindler, gentler soul when dealing with even legless wildlife).

Loggah,

I am sure they are used successfully by loggers/timber cruisers here but 22 paces/66' is a real relative term on the side of our steep mountains. I assume that must be on the same elevation to work because 66' above or below the tree where you just about had to rappel to get to it would make a huge difference.

Magicman · August 30, 2015, 08:27:38 AM

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 30, 2015, 02:54:40 AMMM, If you are using a 25" stick to whack rattlers I'd seriously re-consider where I am cruising timber. I'm not extreme on these issues but a lot more comfortable with something with a 4-5 foot reach.

Yup, that remark was "tongue in cheek". (old saying)

loggah · August 30, 2015, 03:24:10 PM

You do have to be at about the same elevation as the tree to make a biltmore stick work correctly. :D estimating timber on large lots dont require checking every tree either. by the time you log 15 to 20 parcels,from 50 to 300 acres you better just be able to walk thru it and estimate whats there! ;D

ScottInCabot · August 30, 2015, 03:50:44 PM

I'm certainly not in the class 'timber buyers' are in. I generally look at 5 to 20 trees...not as in thousands either.....

I'm me, I cut 'em, mill 'em, and get paid for 'em. So being accurate, or as close to accurate as possible means money in my pocket. I don't mind being 'off' by a little...but 100 board feet on a tree, I don't like....multiple that by 12 trees.

Biltmore on the way...

Scott in Cabot