Stickers

[whittle1]

So there seems to be a lot of different opinions on stickers. The guy I bought the mill from said to just use stickers you cut from the flitches. I think I also read that here somewhere. Others say you should use stickers that are dry. I guess it depends on what you intend to use the wood for. I've also read that sticker stain doesn't show up until the wood is planned if that is true and your using the wood yourself for framing maybe it doesn't matter that much. I want to cut some hardwood for flooring and cabinets and really worried about spending all the time to cut and dry to only find out that stain has made the wood unusable. I'm leaning towards dry stickers pine or hardwood. Would dry gum make good stickers? I will be reading all the posts on drying lumber I can find. I have really enjoyed reading all the different topics on this forum.

[Ianab]

You should use dry stickers, but some woods are more forgiving. I've found you can get away with green stickers with things like Cedar and cypress. They dry fast and are stain resistant, so it's OK. When I'm sawing those wood I cut stickers from the shorts and edging as I'm cutting, trim them as go, and add to the stack. If it's construction stuff, and cosmetics isn't an issue, then you can live with the staining. Other species you WILL get sticker stain if you use green stickers. So I save the dry sticks when I unstack the wood, so I have a supply of those on hand.

I don't think that the actual species of wood makes much difference. You just want something that is strong enough, stays straight, and wont break, knots are a bad thing as the sticker usually snaps in 2 at that point. But it can be a good use of a log that's too short, or you find one end rotten etc.

If you are wanting to do a hardwood floor, where sticker stain would be visible, go to the trouble of organising some dry stickers.  If you saw up a pine log into 1x, and sticker on green stickers it will be OK. Rip it into stickers once it's air dried. Worst thing that happens is you get some staining on the stickers, which is only cosmetic, and isn't going to matter.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

You will find that dry stickers can be used several times, so that reduces their overall cost.  If you do not have any available, 1x2 pine from the lumber yard is fine...they are actually 3/4" thick which is ideal.

The stickers help hold the lumber flat.  If the stickers are different thicknesses, you will bend the lumber slightly and have warp.  We certainly like straight framing lumber.  Straightness is a key grading factor for framing lumber.  So, good stickers are worth the money if flat lumber is important.

For appearance grade lumber, like flooring, cabinets, etc., sticker stain is not good, so always use DRY stickers.  In fact many people also use a groove in the sticker and the 4x4s to help dry the wood at the contact area.

By "dry gum" do you mean sweet gum?  This species likes to warp a lot, so it is not used for stickers often.  Straight sticks are best indeed.  But, if your gum is inexpensive wood, use gum or any species, and then Throw away warp or broken sticks before you use them.

Stickers and 4x4s can transport ambrosia beetles and others, so it is best to kiln dry them rather than use them all the time for air drying.  Heating the wood to 130° F kills any insects and eggs.

[whittle1]

Thanks guy's confirmed what I kinda thought on needing to be dry. It is sweet gum and didn't know it was bad to warp I just thought being  light colored and if I let it dry it would make stickers that wouldn't stain.

[Lnewman]

 What are your comments regarding big tooth aspen stickers

[beenthere]

If dry and uniform thickness, should work just fine.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

They break easily, as they have 1/3 the strength of oak.  They also crush easily, so they are soon under 3/4" thick when used with high stacks.

[beenthere]

How high would that stack have to be to crush them ??

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Depends on the species.  With oak, 40 layers or less.

[blackfoot griz]

I was going good to start a new thread but thought I could get  a quick answer here. I just bought 800 board feet of Douglas Fir  T & G. It is at 20% MC. Would it be OK to use strip of OSB as stickers? It will be a while before I install it as soffit  on a covered porch.

[beenthere]

Depends on the species.  With oak, 40 layers or less.

Sorry Doc, but I estimate more than 40 layers.. based on weight of green red oak of around 64 lb/ft³, 4/4 lumber, stickers 1" wide and spaced at 24".

Leads me to calculate a bit under 1 pound of weight on a square inch of sticker-to-lumber interface (a 24" red oak 1x1 dimension weighing 0.88888 lb).
Using aspen compression perpendicular to grain of 1400 psi, seems about 1400 layers before crushing an aspen sticker.
That seems like a lot, but wondering where my calcs may be going astray?

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

So, if we have a stack of freshly sawn red oak that is 12' long and 4' wide and 1-1/8" thick, that is 48 bf of lumber or 4.5 cubic feet of wood.  Red oak weighs, when green, about 6000 pounds per 1000 BF at 1.00" or 6 pounds per bf.  This means each layer weighs over 300 pounds.  So, 40 layers would weigh 12,000 pounds, plus a bit more if we include the sticker weight.  This weight is distributed on 7 stickers. Also note that sticker #1 and #7 will have half the weight of the other five.  So we have 2000 pounds on each sticker, #2-#5, but that weight is not distributed evenly.

The compression strength perpendicular for aspen is 180 psi green and 370 at 12%.  The moisture from the green oak will put the aspen at 30% MC, at least at and near the surface, so we will have failure in spots.



The 1400 number you quoted is kPa and not psi.

[beenthere]

The 1400 number you quoted is kPa and not psi.

My bad for taking that 1400 number for psi.  Was suspicious of the end result, that something was amiss.

But taking the correct number of 180 psi, then max layers (courses) would be 180. That comes from 1 lb of weight per square inch of lumber on the sticker.

Using your numbers (stack 12' length, 4' wide, and 7 stickers), there are 336 in² surface holding up the 300 lbs per layer. In line with my calculation of less than 1 lb.

Good exercise.. and expect 40 layers which would be a stack 80" in height would cover most stacks of stickered lumber.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

The weight is not distributed equally.   For example: The thick piece will have much more weight than the thin piece in a layer.  Also, if a piece cups, the edges will carry much of the weight. 

Also keep in mind that the 180 psi is at 70 F.  A hotter piece has a much lower values...a loss of more than half at 160 F for wet wood.

[Clevelander]

I have access to some rot treated yellow pine I planned on ripping into some stickers but am curious about the effect of the rot treatment on the green lumber I would be stickering. Opinions?

[OlJarhead]

I've had good luck 'recycling' stickers discarded by the big mills!  One not far from my old job used 8 foot gluelam stickers and if they got cracked or broken etc they burned them.  I found I could get a truckload of them (back of my pickup) for free and cut the good parts out leaving me 48" of good sticker.

I had so many at one time I was letting customers use them! 

Now I'm down to just enough for myself (see what happened there) but if I needed more that's where I'd look and I tell my customers to do that too.

[beenthere]

I have access to some rot treated yellow pine I planned on ripping into some stickers but am curious about the effect of the rot treatment on the green lumber I would be stickering. Opinions?

What is the treatment?


  I think you should be fine using it for stickers, if it is dry.

[Clevelander]

I have access to some rot treated yellow pine I planned on ripping into some stickers but am curious about the effect of the rot treatment on the green lumber I would be stickering. Opinions?

What is the treatment?


  I think you should be fine using it for stickers, if it is dry.

Thanks Beenthere. Sticker on the lumber doesn't say what chemical but it is the same wood bought at Home Depot that is rot resistant. Any wood I sticker will just be stacked for a couple of weeks until I have a load to sell to the green lumber buyers. I just want to make sure it doesnt stain while waiting to accumulate enough for a load.

[lewis]

do you think kiln dry western hemlock would work for stickers with out staining hardwoods?

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Treated lumber has been used for stickers and no color issues have been reported to me over many years.

Western hemlock is often used for stickers for drying hardwoods, with no negative reports.

[Clevelander]

Treated lumber has been used for stickers and no color issues have been reported to me over many years.

Western hemlock is often used for stickers for drying hardwoods, with no negative reports.

Thank you.

[mesquite buckeye]

We use green stickers all the time drying mesquite with no problems whatever. Please note that our average relative humidity is probably like 20%. You can watch water dry up out here. ;D

I've done the same thing in Misssouri and have been able to reliably produce sticker stain. :( :(