transplants vs. seedlings ?

[UNCLEBUCK]

I have the 2005 price list in front of me for the minnesota state nursery and it shows they are allready sold out of norway pine transplants 8"+ @ 440$/thousand , they have norway pine seedlings 3-6" for 160$/thousand . Using the rented transplanting machine could I have good success planting the seedlings or is it a waste of time ? I want to mail my order in soon so I get on the list for the spring planting. thanks

[Minnesota_boy]

From my perspective, you may have better success planting the smaller trees, but if you have as many deer as we have here, it won't matter too much because unless you fence to keep the deer out, your survival rate will be pretty low as the deer love to graze on the seedlings and transplants.

[UNCLEBUCK]

10-4 Minnesota Boy !  I got a old spra-coupe field sprayer so I think I might whip up a pepper wax concoction to blow on my plantings. This is my 2nd year ordering from the state like this, had good luck last year with black walnut as they survived 3 week drought in may and come on strong till first frost so I will see how they survive the winter as I have a few in the farmyard that have survived 4 years now, I just have to try some pine this time . thanks

[SwampDonkey]

Not sure how Norway pine survive field plantings but we planted thousands of acres of red pine on abandoned fields in my area and have had great survival. The best stock we ever planted was from government who have 1/3 stock (1 year in nursey, then out planted in beds for 3 years) They were bare-root. But had to be handled carefully and planted as early as possible. Its hard getting pine larger than 4 inches these days as they take 2 years to grow and start out slow in the nursery. I'de make sure the field was herbicide with princep first, then machine plant. If hand planting, use a 2 furrow plow and space the rows 6 to 7 feet and plant near the sod hinge, not on top of the flopped sod as they'll die from drought. Using this method avoids herbicide use and I know an old gentlemen who does this and rolls the furrows with a roller hitched to the plough to smooth out the air pockets. He has had 95 % survival with his white spruce this way. He has planted about 150 acres of pasture and 200 acres of woodland which weren't well stocked after harvesting.

good luck  

[UNCLEBUCK]

ok swamp donkey thanks for all your input. I made some calls to the state nursery and they said a transplant is lifted out after 2 years and the roots are pruned and then placed into the ground for 2 more years and when sold they have a bigger root system and better to hand plant them , so I ordered 2000 white spruce improved seedlings which have been growing for 3 years and never lifted out and pruned at the root and they say its easier to plant the seedlings in a machine .Last year I took Rons advice and rented a pull type machine from my local county extension office , it was new and very nice to sit on .  This herbicide you mentioned called "princep" is that a complete grass killer or broadleaf and I assume that would go on a few weeks prior to planting? I never heard of that but I sure like the sound of it .Thanks & Merry Christmas up there in the bushes !

[SwampDonkey]

Apply this herbicide as early as you can get on the ground and don't spray over new plantings. Trees have to be well established to spray over them like 4 year old Christmas trees or the like.

If you want to spray herbicide over young seedlings use glyphosate, but only when trees harden off in late summer (late august). Ask your locla forest extension when spruce harden off in your area. We've occassionally got glyphosate damage to trees when planting in years with late summer flushings. This happens after the initial spring flushing where you get a long dry spell followed by alot of prolonged rainy days. It will cause a second flushing which is susceptible to glyphosate damage.

We used princep to site prep fields (2 weeks before planting) for red pine plantings( 1-3 stock) only and Christmas tree growers use it. It is applied before greenup. It will kill small established spruce seedlings, so be cautious if you have some naturals you want to save. Not recomemnded for seedling stock less than 3 years old. For spruce we used glyphosate and sprayed at greenup before tree planting. Then the following late summer after trees hardened off if needed.

Here's some info on princep - click

More info on various herbicides used in tree plantings - click

Here is a site sure to interest you

[UNCLEBUCK]

Hey thank you , that is great because I didnt want to mow weeds and I will do that and show pics of my second time using the tree planting machine . The minnesota state nursery has really sold out of stuff fast in fact I got my check back from when I ordered a few weeks ago so I called this time and reserved my little trees and sent my check . I love to look at pines and spruces so it will be nice to look at these in years to come , they costed 200$/1000 so if I can keep them alive it will be a cheap investment . I hope the black walnut I planted last spring will survive the winter , we got 1 inch of snow and -20F temps going on right now so I will know come spring .

[SwampDonkey]

I planted some black walnut over 12 years ago, from a nursery in southern Quebec. They have done well, but do get some dieback after they get established. I've got seed from them the last 4 or 5 years, but I don't think they are fertile. I planted some seed out on the woodlot from Va and NC and had germination, but they aren't as frost hardy. There is still life in them but not doing as well as my local butternut plantings. Mice and moles may be a problem if you don't keep the weeds away from their trunks. You can spray princep on the ground around them in fall after leaf fall I beleive, check with your extension on that.