Question about blade

[J_T]

Furby the more idia;s a man get's to ponder the better 8) Sometimes one thing can trigger a new inventichon or it does for me. Just throwing out idia's I got a circle mill don't know zip about any others but would like to learn 8)

[Furby]

Not cutting ya down at all! ;)
Part of what ya said gave me part of what I said. ;) ;)
My point was needing to get the thing out of the way, as it wouldn't be needed all the time.

[Furby]

While I have this in my head:
Since we are considering strange concepts, why not replace the circular blades with a pair of straight router type bits for edging?
They would have to be bigger then standard shop router bits, but would be easier to hook up and adjust. Also would do away with a lot of the problems of the saw blades. There would be a little more waste, but not that much. Would be limited by way of thickness of boards though. I don't think longer bits would hold up to knots real well. :

[Swede]

[My point was needing to get the thing out of the way, as it wouldn't be needed all the time/quote]

Furby; I think it could be done by sliding left blade to left end and right blade to right end of the shaft. ???
You "just" have to get poles and dogs out of the way :D :D :D And on my sawmill also the drive belt. :

Swede.

[EZ]

Furby, your kinda on the right track. All mills are design a little different, if you ever seen a EZ-Baker mill(carriage) this is how mtne is made, except maybe just a little bit more heavy dutyer. ;) The one thing you brought up is it might be a little heavy on the back half. You are right, this could be a shut down for me. I figure with the extra weight it would be around 300 lbs, which would throw the balance way off. If I add some lengh to the carriage it would cut down the log length to 14 ft. Cant do that cause half of the logs I saw are 16 footers.
I hate it when things dont work out. :
EZ

[Furby]

Swede,
If ya gotta spend all that time moving the blades out on both sides, then putting them back when needed, why go through all the trouble? It would be faster and easier to just edge with the mill. For this to work, it really needs to be fast and easy to get out of the way, and then back in place. Not messing with a bunch of stuff.
Picture a log on the mill.
Don't need the edger for the first slab.
Ya want to take a couple of flitches after that first slab, ya want the edger.
Stop the mill, move blade #1 over and into position, walk around to the other side and set up blade #2, walk back and start up mill.
Take your "edged" flitches.
Rotate log.
Now ya need to get the edger blades back out of the way to pull the next slab, and then back in place for a flitch or two.
And so on......
WAAAAAAY to much work! The whole unit would need to swing, or lift out of the way with the twist of a lock and a flip of the wrist. Back into place the same way.

EZ,
The router bit idea, was an attempt at reducing weight and the counter balance problem. It just has it's limitations.
I was thing about this on my way home last night, or this morning, or whatever. You could make it a little more compact and reliable by not having it swing, but slide up and down and side to side. I'd have to see your mill to get a better idea how to make it fit, but I would really think about having the edger blades just in front of the band blade. That opens up a HUGE amount of problems, but I'm thinking that it would be more effective, kinda hard for me to explain what I'm thinking. :
I'm thinking it could be done well under that 300 pounds, but it sure would still have some weight.

Just went and looked at the Baker EZ Mill. Yep see your problem! If the edger was off the front, it wouldn't be so bad. Other wise, could you cut the posts of the cairrage free from the rollers and move the posts forward?

[EZ]

That would be alot of work cutting the post and moving them up. Besides, where the saw head sits its balance perfect. When I built the new carriage and all I ran into trouble with that same idea and had to move it where it suppose to have been. I'll keep figuring something out, I kinda like your idea of putting an edger on the mill frame. ;D Well see,
EZ

[Swede]

Furby; The blades has to be moved whithout stopping the mill!

They don´t have to be axial locked on the shaft.  I know big blades can be hanging lose but guides push them to right dimention.  Think it would work with smaller blades too.
Remember a gang saw from the saw mill I worked on as a young boy. Think there was 5 or 6 blades and the same number of levels, all mecanical. The big saw just took 3 sides off the log and then send it to the gang saw. It wasn´t very big but think it could take 10".

Want one but can´t find. :(

Swede.

[Swede]

EZ;

I think You have to make the frame longer and also the saw head. Are You going to make some saw dust next year?  :D  ;)

I know it takes too much time. Thats why I have to stop reading forestryforum   :  :( or Amerika-Sågen will even fly  in a year or two.  :D Now I want electic controls for the engine and setting and guide and.....and......and...........beside the two small circular blades sliding on a shaft.  8)

Swede.

[GF]

Just an idea to throw in.  What if one took the chainsaw bars from the small pruning saws on the backside with a pivot point, the pivot point would need to be splined to match the inside of the chainsaw sprocket, this would allow the bars to move along the entire width of the shaft (pivot point).  Multiple bars with multiple spockets could be attached.

Another piece of round stock the same widtth as the splined shaft could be mount about mid point of the bar, this would stabilize the chain bar and also allow a single actuator raise and lower all, you also could use multiple actuators at each bar to adjust them indivually. A set screw at each of the bars at the mid point shaft would lock them in place.

Wanted to get real fancy could use actuators to turn additional threaded rods the same length as the splined shaft, this would allow each bar to moved left or right remotely, eliminating the need for the set screw.  Alot of work but doable, you could also use the same theory but use circular blades instead of the chainsaw bars.

[Captain]

OK, how about some ideas from a swing blader....

Consider the typical radial arm saw used to cross cut, the blade spins downward into the material and cuts, forcing it down and back into the fence.  This is similar to climb cutting with a swing blade mill, or that is cutting in the "wrong" direction.  As Ian stated, things go bad when this is done, especially with a deep vertical cut.  It is called climb cut for a reason  

I think that EZ's idea would work, with 1 blade even, to make things easier.  If this blade was setup to climb cut shallow depths (1 to 3 inches) and edge 1 side as he cut, it would even help propell his manual bandmill through the cuts.  It would be very easy to edge flitches that were already edged  on 1 side.....My advice would be to go for a 10" table saw ripping blade.  You must be careful to get the correct RPM for proper cutting, depending on blade tension.

You go, EZ

Captain

[EZ]

Captain, I think you got my idea right. At times I have a hard time expaning what I want to do.
As far as the extra weight on the back of the carriage, I could lighten it up some but not to much. That 11 hp weighs about 100 lbs itself. My best bet would be a 12 volt motor, but I dont really want to go with the expense of that right now. I hate spending $200,000 on something and it dont work. :D
Thank you all for trying to help me out.
EZ

[Furby]

Captain,
That's kinda what I was talking about with the edger on the front of the mill, only have the blades spin as in a skill saw.
No it would not help pull the carraige along doing it this way, but would have a heavy, stable area to be cutting. Then as the band passes through the area, the board and trimmings are simply cut loose from the log. No climb cuttting involved.
Off the back of the carraige, it would be cutting through board thickness material, that would bounce and move around.
It just seems to me to be too much trouble to edge a flitch after ya already did one edge as ya cut the board. Yeah you could do it like EZ wants to, but why not take the extra step and have a finished board in one pass? Never having to touch that board again???

Swede,
You and I are talking about the same thing.  ;)

GF,
Not bad at all! ;)
Myself I'm not real big on useing chainsaws for milling, but in this case, it's a reasonable set up, not too expensive, and would probly work. Maybe not as fast as a circular blade though.

EZ,
I see your point with the engine, no point in spending money to try some thing ya may not like. My point is, be it a smaller gas engine, 12 volt motor, or 110 volt motor, the finished product could be made with less weight involved.

My mill is waaaaaay to front heavy, just the lightest tap at the front roller will send it into a tumble, not good! : Plan to add some counter weight to the back half. ;)

[EZ]

Furby, counter balance on the back of your mill. Maybe I have the wrong mill to put an edger on. ;D
EZ

[Furby]

Naw, then I'd only be able to cut 14' ers, just like you! ;)
Really, It seems an extension would be in order, I belive I cand get 2' & 4', if I wanted. I just feel that the edger would work better in front of the blade. Just my thinking, that's all. :
In my case, I think I'd still be able to do just over 16' with the edger off the front.

I will say however, I've really enjoyed this thread, and I've come this close to putting everything else on hold and throwing something together, just to see if it would work. ;D

[isawlogs]

EZ

 Have you thought of making an edger
I have one that I bought new from enercraft back in 94 , I find that the portable eddger is alot more efecient than a edger on the mill because of some of the reasons said above ( tapered logs ect.)
  Had I had time back then I sure would have put my mind and alot of effort into making my own , Now that I have it it makes sawing alot easyer, I saw and  when I have a pile (read wack of) I get the edger going and put u'm through.
  It's run with a n 11 hp honda