353 Detroit help!

HCenter · January 23, 2022, 01:08:55 PM

Hello everyone! I recently inherited a Whirl Bird log skidder from my grandpa. It has a 353 Detroit in it and an Allison 3 speed transmission. After a few days of work I got it to start, run and drive. BUT it's building pressure in the cooling system? No water in the oil or oil in the water? Any suggestions of where to start?

HCenter · January 23, 2022, 01:15:00 PM

I forgot to mention. At an idle with the radiator cap off I can see small air bubbles coming out of the upper coolant hose. With the cap tight (new cap) at high rpms it builds enough pressure to blow coolant out of the radiator cap. But at low rpm it doesn't blow coolant out of the cap

Autocar · January 23, 2022, 02:14:01 PM

My guess is the head gasket is blown

barbender · January 23, 2022, 04:14:41 PM

Sounds like a blown head gasket that is letting compression into the cooling system, but not leaking coolant into the combustion chambers. I have a 6.6 Duramax doing the same. I'd far prefer to have the problem on a Detroit😊 I have never heard of a Whirl Bird skidder, sounds like a cool machine!

newoodguy78 · January 23, 2022, 05:31:26 PM

I'm with the guys above sounds like a bad head gasket. I've used this test twice to diagnose for certain before taking apart. Very simple and don't remember exactly how much the kit was but it wasn't expensive. If you're anywhere close you're welcome to use it.

mike_belben · January 23, 2022, 05:59:14 PM

headgasket or liner o-rings typically. not sure if detroits have them but in general those two are suspect with age.

try agkits, theyre usually the cheapest youll find.

BargeMonkey · January 23, 2022, 08:31:30 PM

How deep do you plan to dig ? Engine ran fine other than that ?

Southside · January 23, 2022, 09:23:10 PM

Barbender - what year D-max? I did my early 06 LBZ - they were a pressed not riveted gasket at first - it wasn't that bad of a job. The torque to yield process was probably the biggest pain of the whole thing.

C5C Tree Farmer · January 23, 2022, 09:45:24 PM

The head gasket on the 53's is not a conventional design. Each cylinder has its own steel o-ring for a compression seal and each water port has it's own silicone o-ring for coolant retention. Generally speaking they don't give a great deal of trouble.
The cylinder sleeves on the 53's are wet on the top half and dry from the blower ports on down. The sealing rings do go bad and this usually shows up as coolant in the oil pan and white froth on the dip stick.
The pressurized radiator problem can also be caused by a cracked head or a faulty injector sleeve.
The head will probably have to come off. Before disassembly it would be to your best advantage to try and isolate which cylinder is causing the problem. Remove the valve cover and with the engine idling manually hold down the injector plungers. This will cause the cylinder to misfire and your assistant can let you know if it changed the bubble supply in the radiator.

BargeMonkey · January 23, 2022, 10:01:52 PM

Quote from: Southside on January 23, 2022, 09:23:10 PM
Barbender - what year D-max? I did my early 06 LBZ - they were a pressed not riveted gasket at first - it wasn't that bad of a job. The torque to yield process was probably the biggest pain of the whole thing.

I've got an LLY doing it and afraid to open pandoras box 🤦‍♂️

Southside · January 23, 2022, 10:25:48 PM

The biggest thing is to make sure the dowel pins stay in the head when you set it back on, they are a bit loose. Otherwise it's just a lot of parts to remove to get there.

barbender · January 24, 2022, 01:45:02 AM

It's an '01. I'm not afraid of the job, if I had the time and a shop. I have neither, and paying a shop to do it will cost more than the Heavy Chevy is worth, unfortunately. I finally started running my Dodge Cummins for a woods truck again, on top of the head gasket the Chevy had an injector crack hang up. It sounds BAD, like embarrassing when it's idling at a gas station bad. RAP RAP RAP!!😂 So it gets parked until I have time to monkey with it, if ever. It owes me nothing.

barbender · January 24, 2022, 01:46:49 AM

Maybe I should pull my sweet running 353 out of my skidder and swap that into the Chevy, I always did want to try a Detroit on an Allison. That auto could keep a screamer on the pipe😁

mike_belben · January 24, 2022, 09:08:02 AM

my wife would not tolerate me riding around in a "screamer named allison" whatsoever. ;D

Ed_K · January 24, 2022, 11:20:09 AM

Not knowing anything about a detroit when I bought my taylor skidder I ran it for 11 yrs with a plastic cover over the radiator and added oil to the 4-53 in between oil changes and let it smoke ;D. When I finally had enough money to rebuild it, the mechanic found the head had 3 cracks in it and the #2 an#3 rods were bent a little

. It runs clean now but will smoke a little if I leave it idling to long ;).

mike_belben · January 24, 2022, 12:04:29 PM

a stuck open or removed thermostat will make zero heat on a sizeable diesel. i towed my dually across the berkshires on a tag trailer when i bought my dt466 T-ton truck. the thermostat is a funny sleeve affair that was in backwards. top of the radiator never got over 70ish and i was absolutely freezing. holding back water and regulating temp is critical. costs a lot of power to keep an engine cold.

Iwawoodwork · January 25, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Hcenter, If you are not going to work on it right away you may be able to use it if you just put the radiator cap on loose that way it lets the pressure vent, I have done this a few times when i was not able to immediately tear the motor down.

HCenter · January 25, 2022, 08:01:32 PM

thanks for all the information! i was hoping i wouldnt have to pull the head off but it sounds like ill have to. other that the pressure in the cooling system it runs decent. it does blow TONS of smoke thats greyish in color and smells like unburnt fuel. im assuming that has to do with the 9 year old diesel thats in it. i plan to drain the tank, add new diesel and ctane booster as soon as the weather allows it. im also having issues adjusting the rack just right. if i back the idle screw out it will die, if i turn it up high enough to idle, then it tries to run away going down hill. also if i rev it up it takes about 5 seconds to return to idle after letting off the throttle

C5C Tree Farmer · January 25, 2022, 10:08:32 PM

So if you have lots of gray smoke and the engine does not want to idle you either have bad injectors or low cylinder compression or a combination of both. No amount of rack setting will overcome these issues.
I think the "idle" screw you have been turning on is actually the "buffer" screw which is not used to adjust the idle. True...if it is turned in too far it will raise the idle speed but the rpm will want to float instead of rapidly dropping to the preset idle rpm. It's best to turn this screw back out and use the hand throttle (if your machine has one) to keep the engine running while you try and sort out what's going on.
My guess is that you have a cylinder that is a complete misfire at idle speed (why it won't idle) and as the engine rpm is raised this cylinder starts to fire intermittently then consistently the closer you get to WOT.
If you are contemplating doing the repair work yourself the best money that you can spend at this time will be to get a Detroit Diesel 53 Series Service Manual. All the procedures that you will need to do are clearly outlined in it. Ebay currently has a few for sale in the $30 range.