General Sawing tips for portable sawyers

[Crossroads]

My standard fee is $75/hr whether I'm running the mill, the chain saw or stacking lumber. The customer can decide where my time is best spent. The only time the clock stops is when they buy pizza for lunch 😁

[WV Sawmiller]

   More rain and more videos and another topic I noted, which ties in with the previous several responses, was what we called Time and Motion Studies in the industry world. I guess I took this for granted and did not mention in the original posting but we do need to look at T&M. As mobile sawyers we are frequently working with inexperienced helpers and customers who don't know better.

  Every site layout will be different because of topography, available equipment, access, sizes and types of wood being cut, etc. In all cases before we even set up and start sawing we need to look at ways to reduce the amount of time and effort used to remove slabs and edgings, stage flitches, and stack finished lumber.

  Most of the time, site permitting, I try to throw my slabs on the other side of my sawdust pile as that is usually closer. When I finish the cut I shut off the blade, lift and throw the slab away or pitch the flitch off on to the loading arms while I am next to it. I watched sawyers on videos who returned to the front then walked back around the mill to remove slab or slide the flitch off so they covered the same ground twice. If I have a helper he can do that but he better not slow me down. With plenty of good help I may allow placement of the slab pile on the opposite of the mill and just push the slab off on the loading arms and let the helpers port it away. If I have to move even a few of them I want the pile on my side of the mill so I don't have to carry it far.

  With a good, experienced helper it is probably faster for him to pull the flitch or board from behind me (front of the mill) especially if he can grab it as soon as the blade clears the log/cant. That is also a safer position for him but if he is not Johnny on the Spot I have him remove from the rear or I keep tripping on him. I hate waiting for a helper to get out of my way.

  Where possible neither I ,or my helper, lift the boards, especially long heavy stuff. We just slide them off on to a truck, trailer or MHE forks, if available. I have had customers who planned to carrying finished boards 50' or more to stack and sticker them. That doesn't work as it takes too long and I get that straightened out before cutting. We may have 2-3 stacks at the rear of the mill and 1-2 at the front if cutting multiple lengths or thicknesses but the stacks have to be positioned close enough, while still leaving safe access between, for the helper to be able to stack them pretty much as fast as I can cut them. Yes, we can let a couple of boards build up on a cant but not enough they get in the way or delay my cutting.

  One note of caution - don't stack the lumber where it blocks your access or departure. At the end of the job you want to be able to hook up and pull away and not have to wait on your customer to move a stack of lumber with a tractor or skid steer that may decide it doesn't want to cooperate. This same basic principle applies to any place you set up the mill - you always want to be able to hook up and leave when you are ready to go, not when it is convenient for others.

  The bottom line is we always need to look for ways to improve our T&M on each job. Generally this is also easier and safer since we are not carrying heavy loads as far

[Magicman]

Especially since I am riding in the sawmill seat, I do not allow anyone or any lumber or slab/flitch handling behind me.  I want everything and all workers in front of me so that I can see them.  This is one reason that I removed the board dragback from my sawmill.  The other is that I gained those inches in throat height.



I am packed, loaded, and ready for a 70 mile one way road trip for tomorrow and finishing Saturday.  5:00 will come early tomorrow morning.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Don't leave put your tarps under their sawdust pile. :laugh:

[Magicman]

Don't drive off and leave your leveling boards and/or wheel chocks that are covered with sawdust.  Do a walk around after your pull a few feet away from the sawing location.  Check for tools, etc. and do a final check to be sure that the sawmill is properly hitched up.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Good point. I have often left the short 2X pieces I had under the landing gear and or the 2'-3' long 1X6s under the low side wheel I typically drive up on to help level the mill side to side.

   Be careful out there MM and keep us posted.

TT,

   I don't take tarps for the sawdust. Either the customer can provide his own or he can shovel or scrape it away. I will sometimes scatter it with my leaf blower if around someone's yard or such but most of my sawing is off in a pasture or woods and they don't care about it.

   I do always suggest to the customer that he might want to save a bag or barrel full for sweeping up oil spills in the shop. About half the time they take me up on that suggestion.

[Peter Drouin]

The way I set up when I was on the road.

My log shifter was a big help. You can see the set up in the back ground, I would spin the lumber on the cant point and push. The first board would stick out and I would right the length on it. And know where the bottom of the stack started. I would keep all the sizes together.


Unless I ran out of room with the last log. :D

[WV Sawmiller]

Peter,

   I've always loved your log shifter. Does it just sit on the ground between the loader arms or does it slip over the tracking under the arms for stability or such? Why haven't you patented it and gone into partnership with WM or LogRite to manufacture and market them? I'm sure they would sell. :D

   Did you find your sawdust pile got in the way of your lumber stacking or did you have to keep shoveling or blowing it aside? On bigger jobs I have to contend with it and the slab pile encroaches on me forcing us to move one or both. In some cases its faster and easier to just hook to the mill and move it a few feet.

    Set up is always a treat as every site is different and you have to compensate and still meet the basic requirements.

    I am pretty anal about placing my tools in the same location relative to the mill so I know exactly where to reach when I need one.

[Peter Drouin]

I used a Big shovel and a garbage can with wheels to move the sawdust to one side. Maybe 2 to 3 times a day. Not bad. the slabs you see I put in a way where I can walk up the pile and drop them off the back side if I had to.

sometimes It would hook up. :D :D

[terrifictimbersllc]

TT,    I don't take tarps for the sawdust

Nor I, only once, I learn fast.  

[Chuck White]

On my sawjobs, the lumber is always off-loaded on the idle side of the mill, never over the main rail!

[Peter Drouin]

On my sawjobs, the lumber is always off-loaded on the idle side of the mill, never over the main rail!

Do you work alone?

[WV Sawmiller]

Chuck,

   I think I am with Peter on this one. I never unload on the idler side when working alone as that is way too many extra steps for my way of thinking and looks like further to reach for every board. Plus it looks like I'd be tripping over my logs staged in front of the loading arms. My helpers can unload from there when I have any. Most of the time, whether alone or with help, I unload over the rails off the rear end of the mill. I normally park my trailer there at home then transfer to my permanent storage area when finished. 

Peter,

   The more I think about it the more interesting I think your stacking technique off the mill is to me and I may try it on my next mobile job if it looks like it fits the site/need. Did you take your wheeled trash can (I think that is what my Aussie & British friends always called a Rolley Bin) with you on mobile jobs or just use it at your home site?

[Crossroads]

I like the way you leave the bottom board proud and write the length in it. 

[Peter Drouin]

The can went with me on all the jobs on the road. I would make a cut step off the chair turn to the front of the mill and the lumber is right there.
Some times if the lumber is only 6" to 10" wide, I would cut a bunch, like 6 or more boards. Grab all of them, spin them, push. Now I'm only lifting one end.
When you pile 6 or more at a time I can cut like crazy. 
All my jobs where all by the BF.
If the logs are not set up the way I told them to do it, I'd tell to move them so I can cut like crazy.  

The customer has the cut list, But I'm the boss.
I did not set the mill on a hill where one end is up in the air, and had to dig a hole for the other end.
One time a customer had set the logs in a hole, or down hill from where I was standing,
He said set up here, :D :D :D
Nope I said I'm setting over there, Nice and level, Told him go get something and move the logs to me.
If you don't put your foot down then you make no money. If you cut by the hr on hard to work place your working like an animal. I don't do that. 
And there was some jobs the customer did not understand or too lazy.
Did not do what I wanted for me to work like a man, I said OK see-ya.
But all this is just me and the way I work.
Best of luck on what ever you want to do for yourself.





And I never pile lumber on a trailer.

[Resonator]

Of course Peter took the trash can (rolley bin) with him, it goes over the head of the dinosaur.  (A day cutting wood - page 4, reply#75)

[SawyerTed]

Peter, I appreciate this advice.  As one just starting out in this business, your and the other veterans' experience and advice is invaluable to me and other newbies.  You've confirmed something I did earlier this week.

I had a neighbor ask me to look at a small job that was going to be my FIRST mobile job.   He was expecting me to skid and stage the logs (only 5) because he didn't want to use his tractor.  I told him I don't do that, he said, "Why?  You've got a tractor."  I told him he may as well make firewood from his logs and started back to the truck.  He said, "Let me see what I can do."  I told him to call me when the logs were where I recommended.  Fortunately, I'm not in a position that I have to do everything that comes along to make this venture work out.

[WV Sawmiller]

Peter,

  What is your issue about stacking on a trailer? Especially if the wood is the same length/thickness?

  I like to back my trailer up to the end of the mill and slide my lumber straight off on to the trailer where I can. That saves me time, labor and steps and is easy to measure when loaded.

[YellowHammer]

Sawyer and Peter,
That's probably one of the best pieces of advice given, as the "expert" or "professional" it's your job to know what you are doing, and also to make sure that they don't make your job harder.  You know what works best and what doesn't and they need to listen to the way it ought to be done to make your job safe, smooth and profitable.

I charge by the board foot, like a lot of people, and as I got higher up the learning curve, I could mill more wood and make more money in the same time.  That's the incentive to hustle and be efficient.  Don't let a customer handicap you.

I remembered one other little tip.  A lot of customers like to yak, yak, yak when I was sawing, so I started wearing those big earmuff hearing protectors, so they could see me wearing them, knew I couldn't hear them and would be quiet and let me saw wood.  Of course it quieted the engine noise down, but it was more useful to quiet down the customer.   :D  

 

[Crusarius]

I am planning on putting a red light on my mill that is illuminated when the engine is running. This gives me an idea to make sure that everyone knows not to bother me when the red light is on. 

My primary reason for the red light is I know I will be sawing for deaf ppl at some point since my wife works at national institute for the deaf.

[WV Sawmiller]

YH,

   Talking with the customer and spectators is a good point. It is a bad habit of mine because I am naturally gregarious and my sawing work is supplemental retirement income rather than my sole/primary means of support. I often tend to treat it as a cost neutral hobby rather than as an urgent source of income. Talking to spectator friends of the customer often results in future work. Of course I have to be careful not to annoy the customer who may be short on time and not want to BS with his buddies. I do wear the big ear muffs and really do not try to talk when sawing. When I finish the log I will talk if anything needs to be discussed or there are others around I want to talk to.

   Holding the line with the customer being ready and complying with setup and processing is a very good point. They really are depending on us to guide them in the right direction and ultimately helps us and them.

[Peter Drouin]

If it was my lumber and trailer I might. But to put a customers lumber on a trailer is hard work, In no time you will be lifting the wood higher and higher. 
Think about it your starting the pile 2' off the ground with the first board.
I cut alone, I have a way that makes me $$.
One time had a customer want to help. After 5 min, I told him he's slowing me down, so thanks but no thanks. :D  :D  :D


Then there's a customer agreed to the BF price, Just 2 to 3000 BF.
I get there and set up. He comes over to give me the cut list. The mill is running.
I look at the list, then look up at him and he starts with how the 6x6 and 8x8 takes less cuts then 1" boards. True I said but the price is the price I have to handle that heavy beam off the mill.
He starts argue with me the beams should be less $$ a BF. I was nice and said no, Now he's going off on me. I'm thinking here we go.
 The old pete all most came out.
Don't I said to my self, I turn the mill off and started packing up.
What are you doing he said, I'm leaving I said. He's, your not going to cut my logs? No I said, your to much of an a// hole and you will stiff me on the pay. 
I have seen your kind before. 

When I was driving a way he was still jumping up and down with arms flapping like a bird.  ;D
 

[Peter Drouin]

Talking can be fun WVSawmiller , At the fair.

A lot of fun.

[WV Sawmiller]

Pete,

   I see your point with the trailer height but if he's providing the help and can keep up I have no issue. I understand if he's slowing you down. 

   I once took a job where I had no help and had to do the stacking too. I charged extra and we agreed but I probably should have charged more but that was on me. He first brought an equipment trailer about 4' tall and that rapidly got too high for me to use so after that I stacked on the ground similar to what you show. Usually 3 different stack because of varying lengths. At the end of every day he moved the stacks so that worked okay.

   I agree with and like the way you handled the cranky customer trying to renegotiate after you got there. You could have required pay in advance once he started griping  but even if you did he'd have complained about the cuts and expected KD, planed, T&G lumber to be coming off the mill so leaving was no doubt the best thing. I bet if he complained to others they knew him and were still likely in your corner.

[Chuck White]

Peter; I don't understand why you asked;  Do you work alone?  :-\

No, I don't, I always have an off-bearer and he or they are always over on the idle side of the mill!

On my LT40, that's over on the opposite side from the operator and sawdust discharge!