Inroduction

[Busysawyer]

First of all I would like to thank all of the members of the forum for their contributions and willingness to share their experience. I have spent at least a couple of months researching sawmill and supporting equipment.  After hours of research we have ordered a lt70 super wide and expect delivery the first week of May.  The anticipation is excruciating.  A little about myself. I am 40 years old with 10 kids. The oldest is our 11 year old son and the youngest are the baby boy and girl twins born last Halloween. We have been blessed with a large and strong family. I have worked as a builder, commercial framer a mechanic and have had my own metal fabrication shop for the last 5 years. I also manage the family's rental properties.  My father and I built a 30x50 pole barn here at my house over the winter. I had intended to set up as my welding shop. Somehow my father and I got to talking about milling and woodwork and the idea set a fire in his brain. So no more welding shop, we are setting up a small milling outfit. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Welcome Castor canadensis. Keep us posted. 

   What kind of support equipment do you have? What is your source for your logs? How are you fixed for space to work, store logs and lumber, etc? I hope you take advantage of this opportunity to spend quality time with your dad and kids and hope it brings you all even closer together.

   You may find this is not the kids dream but it does not mean they can't learn and enjoy the time they spend at it - even if the main thing they learn is that they don't want to be a sawmiller. :D

[starmac]

Well it sounds like you are jumping in with both feet right off the bat. I for one would like to hear more about your business plan, good luck at any rate, and hope all goes well.

[Busysawyer]

Thank you for the warm welcome. As far as support equipment, we are working on that. So far not a whole lot. We have a bobcat t300, 2 3/4 ton trucks and a trailer. We are looking at a cooks ester at the moment.  Where I live is 10 acres of heavily wooded land and we are zoned industrial. I met with the township planner, engineer and building inspector last week to go over our plan and they were very supportive. The plan at this point is to clear around an acre and a half around the barn to build our kiln and a work -storage area while the mill is being built. We are industrial zoned and have no real restrictions on size of operation and have plenty of three phase power for equipment.  We have a family friend that ran his lt40 milling in New York for thirty years and has retired. We are buying his industrial planer and belt sander. Our logs will come from various places. We have a lot of very large hardwoods here at the house and also quite a few large walnuts on our various rental properties. We have 280 acres of mixed forest in North East mi. I have already lined up two milling jobs and am going to finalize a deal with a family friend who is looking to sell around 100 good sized walnuts of of his property.  We also have a couple of wholesale buyers lined up. At this point everything looks very promising if I can figure out how to run a mill properly. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Are you going to be cutting your own logs or do you have someone else cutting them on your property too?

[Sixacresand]

Welcome to the Forum, Busybeaver.

[Busysawyer]

Well it sounds like you are jumping in with both feet right off the bat. I for one would like to hear more about your business plan, good luck at any rate, and hope all goes well.

Yes as with everything I've ever done. Diving in head first. This doesn't have to be a success. My parents and I have worked our butts off to get where we are today. My house and my parents houses are paid for as well as most of the rentals. We are borrowing nothing to do this and can live comfortably on rental income alone. I hope this turns into a money making endeavour but we don't need it to. I would not even consider this as an option if I needed it to succeed. I am only 40 years old but i have learned that the key to my success in anything I've ever done is to be dependable strive for quality and work harder and longer than the other guy. So far this attitude hasn't failed me and it is what I was taught by my parents and it is what I am trying to instill on my children.

  Are you going to be cutting your own logs or do you have someone else cutting them on your property too?

Dad and myself and possibly the oldest boy when he's ready. 

Welcome to the Forum, Busybeaver.

Thank you very much!

[thecfarm]

Seeing others saw really help on the learning part.
This is a great forum. You will like it. And welcome.  ;D

[Busysawyer]

Thank you! I already love this forum. That's why I joined. I have spent just about every free moment I have had since January reading and studying the information here. I have about 10 pages of notes taken from here alone. My uncle had a cooks ac36 mill for a few years but sold it a awhile back. He told me if he had the supporting equipment needed there is no doubt he would have succeeded. Also I have a family friend that ran his own small milling outfit for thirty years based around a lt40 that has spent many many hours schoolling me and has offered to come over when we get our mill to tutor me. I have also visited his friends large industrial mill and seen how the big boys crank out 5 semi loads a day. Spent about 6 hours the other day just watching an Amish mill crank out walnut grade lumber with three man crew, lt70, edger, large debarker and a bobcat t300. It was very impressive to watch.

[thecfarm]

I guess you are all learned up than. ;D  At least you know what you are getting into.

[starmac]

Sounds to me like you are well on your way to success, with any luck at all it will provide a part of the future for yourself and family for many years to come.

Welcome to the forum, and keep us posted, oh yea and pictures, we like pictures.

[Busysawyer]

I guess you are all learned up than. ;D  At least you know what you are getting into.

At this point I feel like the more I am learning the more questions I have. I do feel like I've gained a good base knowledge and have done my research.  That being said I feel like it will take years of hand on experience to be proficient.  I have been heating my home with wood for 15 years and have a friend that owns a decent sized tree service and have worked with him for fun as a climber. I have all my own climbing gear. I have two husky saws, a stihl 201tcm top handle saw and the big boy stihl ms 880 and I love using them. There something about climbing trees and running chainsaws that is therapeutic to me.

[Busysawyer]

Sounds to me like you are well on your way to success, with any luck at all it will provide a part of the future for yourself and family for many years to come.

Welcome to the forum, and keep us posted, oh yea and pictures, we like pictures.

Thank you! It is my hopes that at least one of our ten kids will have an opportunity to have a job that he or she may like. As requested some pics. Not much to see yet but that should change over the next few months 

 

 

 

 

[starmac]

If your kids are like most, they will like being part of it, at least for the short term, it is possible to burn them out, but kids in my opinion do better if they have something to do. I would bet even the smaller ones will like and benefit with some small wood projects of their own, I know my son wanted to be in the middle of things when he was pretty small, and was also a help instead of a hindrance at a very young age, if only for stacking firewood. I wish I would have had a mill when they were young, as I was not into woodworking at all, when my kids were growing up. My two daughters got into woodworking after they were grown, even before I did, so you never know.
I would be willing to bet, that more than one of yours will wind up with the dreaded sawdust disease.

[Busysawyer]

If your kids are like most, they will like being part of it, at least for the short term, it is possible to burn them out, but kids in my opinion do better if they have something to do. I would bet even the smaller ones will like and benefit with some small wood projects of their own, I know my son wanted to be in the middle of things when he was pretty small, and was also a help instead of a hindrance at a very young age, if only for stacking firewood. I wish I would have had a mill when they were young, as I was not into woodworking at all, when my kids were growing up. My two daughters got into woodworking after they were grown, even before I did, so you never know.
I would be willing to bet, that more than one of yours will wind up with the dreaded sawdust disease.

I fully agree on keeping them busy and also keeping them in line as far as manners and behaviour.  With so many kids it seems that if you don't keep them in line it quickly spirals into a rowdy mob. The two older boys are night and day as far as willingness and wanting to work. They both do it but one doesn't like to work hard. We make them work around the house and reward them for their work. I cut the firewood and they split, stack and make bundles to sell out by the road.  Last year the two oldest put their earnings together and bought a new tent for themselves. Our 7 year old daughter works her little butt off trying to out do the boys and stacks the wood just as fast as her older brothers. I don't let them cut wood yet but they argue about who gets to carry what saws when we go out in the woods to cut. Out of all the kids we have one that is just a pain. I used to think that kids were a product of their environment and misbehaving was due to poor parenting but now I realize that no matter what you do some kids are just wired that way. He is 7 years old and we have tried about everything in the parenting book but can't reach that one.

[starmac]

I raised 3 kids, there is no book that explains how kids will turn out, it just doesn't work that way. My two daughters are 1 year and 1 week apart, raised the exact same, and turned out as different in every imaginable way as night and day. thhere is no reason or even explanation for it.

[rjwoelk]

Got 4 3 girls and a boy, The second on works the hardest at not working. Oldest self employed, 2 working on getting into EMT and up, 3 RCMP worked the hardest and hung out with me with the livestock and was my baler from 12 up till I quite haying. My son Journyman welder does excelent work. But only helps me if its interesting to him, sounds like a chip off the old Block,  :DThey are all different personallities and love them dearly.

[Crossroads]

Welcome and I hope your venture takes off like wildfire! I look forward to hearing your adventures along the way.

[YellowHammer]

From your description, sounds like you have a good plan.  Among the mistakes I made when I started was I didn't accurately set my prices, and  I was being pressured by conventional market forces and habit to sell for lower prices.  In reality, we were our generating and establishing our own market and I was working too hard making the best lumber around, and selling too cheap.

This thought triggered in my mind when I read how much walnut and desireable species you had.  You can lose a lot of money real quick learning the markets and getting your quality control, under control.

People understand that quality costs, both in material and labor.  They are willing to pay a fair price if the value is there.  Take a look around, see what other people are selling.  Then make a name for selling one grade better than everyone else, or having product nobody else has, or delivery times nobody else can meet, and then resist the urge to drop your standards.  It's difficult, but ends with less wood sawn and more money made.  There are always two market niches that never gets devalued, and thats quality and customer service.

[dgdrls]

Welcome to the FF Busybeaver,

Best
D

[Busysawyer]

I raised 3 kids, there is no book that explains how kids will turn out, it just doesn't work that way. My two daughters are 1 year and 1 week apart, raised the exact same, and turned out as different in every imaginable way as night and day. thhere is no reason or even explanation for it.

We have the attitude of do our best and the rest is up to them.  

Got 4 3 girls and a boy, The second on works the hardest at not working. Oldest self employed, 2 working on getting into EMT and up, 3 RCMP worked the hardest and hung out with me with the livestock and was my baler from 12 up till I quite haying. My son Journyman welder does excelent work. But only helps me if its interesting to him, sounds like a chip off the old Block,  :DThey are all different personallities and love them dearly.

I started working on a farm in the summers when I was 12. Hard work for sure. 

Welcome and I hope your venture takes off like wildfire! I look forward to hearing your adventures along the way.

Thank you! I will try to keep up with updates and pictures. 

From your description, sounds like you have a good plan.  Among the mistakes I made when I started was I didn't accurately set my prices, and  I was being pressured by conventional market forces and habit to sell for lower prices.  In reality, we were our generating and establishing our own market and I was working too hard making the best lumber around, and selling too cheap.

This thought triggered in my mind when I read how much walnut and desireable species you had.  You can lose a lot of money real quick learning the markets and getting your quality control, under control.

People understand that quality costs, both in material and labor.  They are willing to pay a fair price if the value is there.  Take a look around, see what other people are selling.  Then make a name for selling one grade better than everyone else, or having product nobody else has, or delivery times nobody else can meet, and then resist the urge to drop your standards.  It's difficult, but ends with less wood sawn and more money made.  There are always two market niches that never gets devalued, and thats quality and customer service.

My father and I have discussed this at length numerous times. No matter how much time and effort I spend researching it comes down to producing a quality product. We know we have the trees and will have all the right equipment for the job but don't know how to use it yet. Another fear I have is cutting up trees that may be more valuable as veneer. 

[Busysawyer]

From your description, sounds like you have a good plan.  Among the mistakes I made when I started was I didn't accurately set my prices, and  I was being pressured by conventional market forces and habit to sell for lower prices.  In reality, we were our generating and establishing our own market and I was working too hard making the best lumber around, and selling too cheap.

This thought triggered in my mind when I read how much walnut and desireable species you had.  You can lose a lot of money real quick learning the markets and getting your quality control, under control.

People understand that quality costs, both in material and labor.  They are willing to pay a fair price if the value is there.  Take a look around, see what other people are selling.  Then make a name for selling one grade better than everyone else, or having product nobody else has, or delivery times nobody else can meet, and then resist the urge to drop your standards.  It's difficult, but ends with less wood sawn and more money made.  There are always two market niches that never gets devalued, and thats quality and customer service.

I really appreciate the advice. One question I haven't been able to find the answer to yet is a log that is of veneer quality worth more sold to a veneer company or milled into grade lumber myself? I was told by the only guy I know with experience that it would be a huge mistake to mill a veneer log but he didn't know much about the veneer industry and pretty much only milled softwood in New York.  We had a tree buyer stop by the house about 2 years ago and ask if he could look around. He told me then we had a lot of rare large veneer quality trees and offered us 48 thousand for 31 trees. Mostly walnut a few cherry a few white oak and some red oak as well. Also one very large poplar. He said we had a lot of trees that were around 150 years old . Thus property has been in our family for over 100 years and I'm pretty sure no one has cut anything out of it. I have been having issues trying to decide if I want to cut some of them or not. My great great grandparents built this house in 1917.

[samandothers]

Welcome!
I look forward to reading about your business adventures as well as your parenting adventures.  With 11 kids you will have a pile of parenting adventures.

My dad kept me interested in our farm work by giving me a cow at a young age.  For my help when ever she calfed any income was mine.  I enjoyed the work and learned a lot of lessons. 

[Busysawyer]

I believe these to be a poplar and red oak but we have at least 30 to 40 trees of various species in th 40 to 50 in diameter range

[YellowHammer]

The decision to cut high value trees off your own property is one I have had to deal with myself.  We own a good bit of generally mature hardwoods, more high grade white oak than anything, but with a good many walnuts. We also own a grade lumber business. So what do we do about all our trees? Virtually nothing except enjoy them.

Here's why:
When we started, we didn't know anything and could have cut our high value trees into lumber and ruined them.  It would have been a waste of good wood. Basically turning gold into lead.  I did cut a lot of lower value trees to get our business off the ground, and we made money, but I lost a lot of money and learns some valuable lessons.    

We could have sold them to buyers and made some good money, (our neighbor did) but deep down, I didn't want to do that.  The trees would have been gone and then what?  The value of the land would have dropped commensurate with the value of the trees harvested.  So make money, lose money as a landowner.  

Once we knew what we were doing in the business, I could turn them into very valuable lumber, no problem.  However, by now, we sell so much wood, if we had been doing that, our place would look like a desert and we wouldn't have had a tree left on the place.  So we would have developed log sources anyway.  However, we do have 3 1\2 miles of fencline, and cross fencing so there are always trees that are leaning and need to come down.  I don't hesitate to take them down.  I also use Google Earth to look over our farm and identify distressed and dying trees, get their locations, and I take them out routinely.  No use letting money go to waste.  I consider the healthy trees a growing investment, and leave them alone.  The distressed or questionable trees are invenstments that have reached maturity, and I cash them in.

As our business grew, we had to learn to buy and broker logs, and have log sources, and now we actually don't need to cut our own trees down, anymore.  I say let other people cut theirs down, but not mine.  

As far as veneer buyers, the ones around here generally pay up to $8 to $10 per bdft for walnut, maybe $4 per bdft for an average veneer white oak.  However, in our market, with walnut, for example, I can take that same log, or even one of a lesser "near veneer" quality, process them up properly, and get $15 per bdft.  So if I was going to cut them down, I would use them myself.  However I wouldn't do that unless I knew I could make the money.  If I had some of your huge walnuts, I might be targeting $20 per bdft as finished product.  How much is the veneer buyer offering you on the stump? With your current business maturity you may not be able to match that in high grade lumber sales, but what about in five years?

As a landowner and sawmill owner I can take a slightly different perspective.