Aggravations of a portable sawyer

[Peter Drouin]

From time to time it all works out, Sawyer Ted. 

[paul case]

I think I get as many weird calls as any of youall do but a few have worked out to be good repeat customers.

A few good repeat customers helps make it work. I probably sounded like one of those calls to a guy I have now sold several thousands of $ worth of lumber to.


PC

[Magicman]

Some calls may start out weird as Paul just said, but often it's because the potential customer really knows nothing about sawing or what it entails.  I recently sawed a very nice job because the customer said that I was the only person that would talk and explain the sawing operation to her.  That was a road trip that sawed ~5Mbf.  I was there two days and the customer provided lodging.

The lady that I laughed about in Reply #17:

On the phone she said that she wanted me to saw her logs into 2X12's. She drove up and the tailgate on her truck was closed and there was nothing showing above the sides.

called back later and said that she now had some good logs.  She really did have about a dozen very nice ERC logs and she got her 2X12's.

I'm just saying that we hear a bunch of weird stuff, but do take the time to listen before you blow them off.  It could be a good job.

[Nomad]

     MM, I agree.  Many of my customers start the conversation with "I've never done this before," and I'll help them in any way I can.  But the clowns who start off being sarcastic and hang up on me are people I'd just as soon stay away from.
     One guy called me one time and started the call with "I hear you make tooth picks out of trees."  My reply was "only if I screw up.  Most of the time I make boards."  He turned out to be a pretty good customer.

[WDH]

I just tell them, "Call Customsawyer" :D. 

[YellowHammer]

"I want some of your boards that you throw away. Like free ones." I show him the slab pile and rejects pile and he says "No, they gotta be nicer than that. Im building a fence" Thats when I try real hard to break wind......

I get ones like this a lot.  I tell them the scraps came from high quality logs so they must be high quality scraps. 
Then I tell them that they cost $20 for a pickup truck load and all of a sudden they want them.  Go figure.  :D

[SawyerTed]

I had a guy ask for two scrap pine 2x8x10, I told him there was no such thing.  :D 

He looked at a stack of 2x8s on the tractor forks and implied that I was lying.  I had to explain that 2x8x10s existed but there's no such thing as a SCRAP 2x8x10 - at least not in my yard.   :D  

He paid $12 each and left happy......

[customsawyer]

And I appreciate it WDH. 

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Jake is a problem solver!

[dboyt]

A big part of my conversation goes into how the customer will use the lumber and what provisions have been made for drying it.  Cutting blocking & stickers generates a little more income, and no it is NOT scrap.  Milling for customers who don't have a good handle on drying just generates a lot of very expensive firewood.  A lot of customers want the lumber milled 1" thick, and expect 1" thick dry, planed boards.  The ones that are happy with the end product are the ones that become repeat customers.

[711ac]

Since there's a bunch of sawyers here....
I've hired a portable band mill a few times, always had my tractor or SS there for moving logs, taking away slab wood and sawn boards, basically all the "grunt work" trying to aid the sawyers efficiency. (took directions from him). Both times we were cutting 1" boards and the price was by the bd/ft.
Both times I asked about cutting some timbers and the price. They were the same bd/ft no matter what he sawed. I don't quite get that, esp with a machine there to load & remove. Now I've been in construction (lumber) all my life and realize certain things like a 1x12x12' takes 3 passes of the saw and pays him (let's say) .50 for 12 bd/ft or $6. Now we go to a 12" sq cant 12' long, 4 passes of the saw....... $72. 
What am I not considering?

[Magicman]

It's not the ribbon that you pay for, it knowing how to tie it.  (old saying but very true)

Reading the log and setting it up for sawing takes experience that you never see.  Sometimes extra trim cuts must be made to avoid wane.  Handling and turning the timbers without damaging (knocking the corners off) takes extra time and skill.  In actuality there is seldom much time difference between sawing lumber or timbers.  For me, the price is the same.

[CCCLLC]

Very well said MM.

[Peter Drouin]

It's all work, Do you pay extra when the sawer has to start his chainsaw?
The same thing if you put in rotten logs in the pile, will you pay for that too?
When I had a customer try to bring me down my already talked about price. I would just tell them, Ok, how about $100.00 an hour to start. 

[SawyerTed]

Maybe you should negotiate an hourly rate for the timbers and a board foot rate for the lumber.  It might make you feel better.

But I think you will find the cost is about equal either way.  The costs of operating are the same, no matter what formula one uses to cover costs. The rate a sawyer uses changes the impetus for efficient operations - an hourly rate places efficiency on the owner of the logs, a board foot rate places efficiency on the sawyer.  

Making a timber that will likely dry straight isn't just 4 cuts and it does take somewhat different skill, knowledge and experience than plain sawing boards.  While ideally a cant prior to cutting into square edged boards would make a timber, it isn't always the case-wane, sapwood, knots etc impact the the quality of the timber possibly more than a the same cant sawn into boards.  That's the hidden knowledge and skill Magicman is saying that the sawyer brings with him.  There's value in that knowledge and skill.

[711ac]

Thanks magicman & Ted, not being a sawyer I did not understand these points.
We all work by the hour one way or another.
Peter I think you took my question the wrong way. No big deal  

[slider]

Repeat well said MM.

[Magicman]

I recently sawed a job producing 125 timbers of various dimensions; from 12X12 down to 4X6.  I kept up with the board footage as well as the hours spent.  There was a whopping $24 difference between the two methods of billing. 

[711ac]

I recently sawed a job producing 125 timbers of various dimensions; from 12X12 down to 4X6.  I kept up with the board footage as well as the hours spent.  There was a whopping $24 difference between the two methods of billing.

I would never have imagined that, not being a sawyer. Thanks again Magicman, a somewhat "educated" customer in any business is a plus. Now can you explain lawyers fees? :D

[Magicman]

To me lawyers fall into the same category as Sweetgum. 

[WV Sawmiller]

MM,

   That's an insult to an innocent tree. :D

[Magicman]

OK, I'm sorry.....but so are lawyers and Sweetgum.  ;D

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

MM, my Mom used to say there's sorry and there's SOORREEE...

Herb

[terrifictimbersllc]

To me lawyers fall into the same category as Sweetgum.

Let me see if I understand, as I sawed some sweetgum in CT last week. The advice I received....

Nail them down while they're wet.
Customer will not be happy.
Slab them heavy.
Some of them will walk away before they're dry.
Quartersaw them.
Saw them thick.

Do I get it?  

[paul case]

Same goes for most lawyers. :-\

PC