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Author Topic: Hard maple  (Read 3130 times)

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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Hard maple
« on: July 15, 2018, 08:08:45 AM »
Well itís been awhile since I posted. Still working towards my own operation. The iron mule is coming along goood. Fixing small things. Prolly wouldnt have to but itís home. Nows the time to do it. Iíve got three small wood lots lined up. Just acquired two hard maple woods. Havenít crewsed it with a scale or tree count yet but Iíd say 300-400 between the two lots. Then the low grade trees also. The last time I cut high grade maple was prolly ten years ago. My question is these mills come in and pay land owners (Some good friends of mine) very high prices. $200-$300 per tree. Iíd like to know how there getting it? If I use dole scale the footage and per foot price they pay them just dosent add up! Iím doing 40/60 split on the grade and want the best price for both parties. I know thereís a lot of variable but just looking for some opinions.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 08:10:02 AM »
These are 18-26Ē trees by the way. Thanks.

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 08:41:13 AM »
Well, if it's a 24" diameter and 16' long, got 400BF. Going rate for prime is 800-850, so there you go...$320-340. 12 footer is 300BF, so $240.

It adds up.
Good luck!
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 09:07:27 AM »
24Ē dbh. If you scale a log 24Ē dbh itís in the range of 18Ē at the small end. So you go down to 147 bf. so if two high grade logs are cut from that stem your $200-$300 per tree. So there pay full value and not getting anything for producing it or trucking it? I see what your saying. There just not leaving much wiggle room for profit.

Offline dnash

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2018, 09:29:58 AM »
How much of it will make veneer?
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2018, 09:33:15 AM »
As I said I have properly crewsed it yet but there will be a good dozen veneer on each lot. Yes this will add up fast also.

Offline loggerman1959

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2018, 10:17:49 AM »
Are you sure that's what the mills are paying ???? Sounds pretty high to me especially now , in our area ( northern NYS ) hard maple is loosing ground .

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2018, 10:27:58 AM »
Iím not sure yet. I havenít contacted anyone. I was basing my numbers off Pa walnuts. Just for the sake of this conversation. The last maple job I did (10 years ago) itís was $1200 for prime. Our red oak was in the $750-800 range. And thatís average hole tree price. In the past oak was always cheaper than maple.

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2018, 11:18:36 AM »
Are you sure that's what the mills are paying ? Sounds pretty high to me especially now , in our area ( northern NYS ) hard maple is loosing ground .


Check out NorthEast Timber Exchange's July price list.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2018, 03:18:29 PM »
Would stick scaled bought by the cord be better? Heís paying $300 a cord down to 10Ē and will sort veneer and he takes 10% for doing so. I did a little math and if you took the butt logs out for high grade and sold the smaller bolts itís almost the same if you send it all for $300 a cord. But stick scale is better  deal than Doyle scale on smaller logs so could actually be better anyways. Just looking at my options.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 06:11:15 AM »
I was hoping to hear some opinions on price and scale. Is anyone cutting maple in northern mi now?

Offline Cub

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 10:12:04 PM »
White ash job I worked on in February I did a 70/30 split with the land owner. 70 for him 30 for me. 30 cord saw and veneer. 20 bolts. 40 firewood. Worked out ok. Hardwood job Iím on now is lots of big hard maple. Basswood. Ask. And beech. Waiting til October or so to cut the ash maple and basswood as I only do it part time I donít want grade logs to crack and stain and become bolts and firewood. Taking out the beech now to get it out of my way and it will just go for bolts and pulp. 

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 10:17:20 PM »
Sorry I donít have much for prices. Havenít checked with my hauler in a while. But last he told me a few months ago basswood Vermeer was around 500 a thousand and maple around 700-800 a thousand. The log buyer comes to the landing and grades each log as itís loaded on the truck. Bolts get stick scaled on the truck at a different mill. And pulp gets stick scaled on the truck and weighed and the yard before loaded on a rail car. 

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 10:20:53 PM »
Pulp gets scaled? Itís not done just by weight? Sorry this is odd to me out here our pulp is chip only wood for weight.

Offline ilog4u2

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 10:37:29 PM »
$300 a cord is the way to go. You will get consistent pay for your woods run hard maple. I do my own veneer sales... Because it's worth the time and effort. 10% is a lot of money if you have 40k in logs there. I'm starting a job next week so I will be checking my local prices here shortly. I spoke with my veneer buyer just last weekend and their winter inventory is all cut and he's back to normal on his buying. 😃

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2018, 10:52:37 PM »
Skeans all our pulp is sold by weight. But I donít truck my own stuff. My hauler charges by the cord so he scales the load once loaded so he knows how many cord he has to charge me. He does all the marketing. He knows what to take where. I just cut and skid and call him when I have a load of whatever and he works it into his schedule. Usually within 5 days he picks it up. He hauls for a couple full time guys and a few other part time guys like me. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2018, 10:56:45 PM »
How much does the haul cost ya and how far is it going?  

You get paid by the trucker or the mill that he hauls to?
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Online Skeans1

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2018, 10:57:31 PM »
Thatís different then our trucking rates itís normally done by the ton with each haul having a different rate per ton.

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2018, 11:11:16 PM »
Mike aspen pulp to LP in sagola mi maybe 100 miles or so away 22 a cord. Suring wi with aspen and hardwood bolts about 50 miles away 20 a cord and expera rail yard in Beecher wi with the hardwood and pine pulp about 45 miles itís 18 bucks a cord. 

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2018, 11:15:49 PM »
Also all the wood is in the truckers name. He gets the check from the mill then he takes out the trucking and I get a check from the trucker with the scale tickets. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2018, 12:27:07 AM »
Gotcha, thx.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2018, 06:16:13 AM »
Ilogforu2 Iím thinking the same deal $300 a cord and set my best logs out and have a couple buyers come look. I use to go to manthei in petoskey but that was a long time ago. This wonít be cut till cold weather. We were told Friday the price of oak dropped and the market is getting flooded. Iím guessing itís due to the heat. They donít like logs stacked up. Thanks guys. I like hearing from others. I always second guess myself!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2018, 03:43:58 PM »
I think most of the world is in a price bubble and most operators are aware that its a "enjoy it while it lasts" scenario.  So that kinda makes everyone ready to dump and run at the slightest market trigger.  Its the same in scrap, stocks etc etc. People are edgy during bubbles, once bitten and all that. 
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Offline nativewolf

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 07:46:45 PM »
$300 a cord is the way to go. You will get consistent pay for your woods run hard maple. I do my own veneer sales... Because it's worth the time and effort. 10% is a lot of money if you have 40k in logs there. I'm starting a job next week so I will be checking my local prices here shortly. I spoke with my veneer buyer just last weekend and their winter inventory is all cut and he's back to normal on his buying. 😃
Waking this thread back up.  Wondering if you had updated hard maple pricing?  A buddy has been cutting in WVA and there is quite a bit of very old, very large nice maple.  He's only getting 800/MBF and I thought that was a bit low and wanted to check on others pricing.  That's 800/mbf to the mill.  
If it does go to veneer what's the pricing there?  He's thinking of giving up the contract and I'm trying to help him find better pricing, basically I think his issue is the pricing; he's a *DanG good logger but not a great business person (I get 30% more for cherry, 10-20% more for oak, etc).  I just don't have hard maple to compare.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2018, 08:50:05 PM »
Iíd like to hear also. I tried one mill and they said they wouldnít give a price sheet or a price for that matter unless I talk to the log buyer/forester in person! Really! But I know oak has dropped twice. I believe the hole tree price is at .60. But Iím giving up till cold weather hits. It should go back up when they can sit on it with out worry. I just had another person want a price this fall. And heís taking bids so I need a good price from someone! Mills make it hard for the logger around here because they want the sale themselves. So your selling to your competition.

Offline 78NHTFY

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2018, 09:12:05 AM »
Local mill here just sent out latest price sheet: Hard Maple--(Slicer quality)$ 4,000/AAA Veneer; $ 3750/AA Veneer; $ 2500/A Veneer; (Rotary quality) $ 1100; Sawlog Prime $ 900; Sawlog Select $ 800; Sawlog #1 $ 575; Sawlog #2 $ 500; Tie Logs $ 385; Matt Logs $ 400; Pallet $ 275. Red Oak--Slicer AAA $ 1200; Yellow Birch--Slicer AAA $ 3500; White Birch--Slicer AAA $ 3500.  All the best, Rob.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2018, 09:20:21 AM »
Man, id be awful scared to be the hired hand grader at a mill paying 4k per thousand on anything.  
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Offline ehp

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2018, 10:19:01 AM »
we get $7k plus for top grade here but our maple is snow white in colour

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2018, 11:11:54 AM »
Thanks 78&EHP, very helpful.  I'm going to have him truck a small load to my deck and give them the hairy eyeball.  If we have any veneer than...well he's getting the short stick for sure.  IF not veneer than he's prob ok at 800 for straight run.  We'll see.

Hard maple grade is all about snow white wood, right?  Do they pull the curly or birds eye stuff from that?  

Any other grade rules on hard maple I should be aware of before looking at his logs?
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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2018, 02:25:23 PM »
big thing is colour, size of the heart and make sure you look for mineral and mineral stain. Big thing here in my area is bird peck and if your log has it its just a sawlog . Different markets call for different grade

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2018, 05:00:45 PM »
big thing is colour, size of the heart and make sure you look for mineral and mineral stain. Big thing here in my area is bird peck and if your log has it its just a sawlog . Different markets call for different grade
ok, did not know bird peck was an issue in maple, I assume it's just like Walnut then, Walnut is so easy to see.
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Offline ehp

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2018, 12:00:18 AM »
Now I would hold on for abit to see what happens with all these tariffs flying around to do with China , this has got everything and everybody pretty scared but Im hoping in a few months things get back in order

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Hard maple
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2018, 09:47:15 AM »
 X2 what ehp says, the mill I sell to just dropped the price of red oak do to the tariff scare.
Ed K


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